Organizing for America | Carl's Blog: Obama just lost my vote

That's right | Report to Admin

By Mike Mansfield Jul 9th 2008 at 4:59 pm EDT

Vote for McSame because he fits with your beliefs so much better than one issue out of many for Obama.

I'm upset about Obama's vote; but it certainly will not stop my support for him. Hillary's vote was a no lose proposition for her.

Hope you rethink your current position.

Re: That's right | Report to Admin

By Carl Jul 9th 2008 at 5:00 pm EDT

Did i say I was voting for McCain...?

Too Obvious` | Report to Admin

By Nickie Jul 9th 2008 at 5:02 pm EDT

Just viewed your profile Carl. Seems you just logged on and created a profile. So you are a new person here without a profile, in other words you are a troll! And you never ever intended to vote for Obama. What a LIAR and a COWARD you are. Get off my blog space and go back to where you came from. Under some rock somewhere! Obama and his supporters are at least honest and good people. You are just trog food.

Re: Too Obvious` | Report to Admin

By Carl Jul 9th 2008 at 5:05 pm EDT

Say what you want. I've been a registered Dem for 15 years. I really wanted Hillary to be the nominee, but when Obama got it, I figured that was OK. But now we have a 180-degree turn on this (shall I quote his December 2007 statement) which suggests to me he's as much a politician as any other candidate. Call me a troll all you want. It won't hurt my feelings in the slightest. And regardless of what you believe, I did intend to vote for Obama if he convinced me he was different. Today, he proved he's not.

Re: Too Obvious` | Report to Admin

By Amare Jul 9th 2008 at 5:06 pm EDT

That is true. A troll.

Re: Too Obvious` | Report to Admin

By Carl Jul 9th 2008 at 5:09 pm EDT

lol. "Troll" is one of the weakest ways to try and discredit someone.

Here's an idea: why don't you post a reply to this supporting Obama's vote today. Perhaps if it's a solid one, I might change my mind. I'm certainly willing to listen. But it's gonna have to be a solid defense on the facts of this bill, not some "Obama is the best chance we've got bull." Settling for a "lesser of two evils" candidate has NEVER been something I was willing to do. And right now, Obama sure appears to be that...

Get the facts | Report to Admin

By Todd Grigsby, CA Jul 9th 2008 at 5:02 pm EDT

Before you go off half-cocked, maybe you should get the details on why he voted the way he did.

Re: Get the facts | Report to Admin

By Carl Jul 9th 2008 at 5:07 pm EDT

Oh, I've had the details for weeks. I've been following his stance on this since December '07, when he said he would not support this (and I breathed a sigh of relief). Unlike some of the posts I see on here, I'm not some college kids who just got excited about his first election. I've been voting for quite some time now and have been consistently disappointed by the Dems. Defend Obama all you want. it's your right and privilege. I only hope you're not disappointed in November (or later) like I was today.

Re: Get the facts | Report to Admin

By Carl Jul 9th 2008 at 5:09 pm EDT

kid* ;)

Party On! | Report to Admin

By Chiminea Jul 9th 2008 at 5:16 pm EDT

Sometimes the party leaves you. There will be better Progressive candidates running in 2012. As much as you may dislike it this is going to be an incremental process so sack up (sorry ladies) and vote for today's Democratic candidate. I don't like it either but going home and sulking gets us nothing. And there is nothing wrong with not being a regular poster on a site. Just 'cause you post a lot doesn't make you a fount of wisdom.

Re: Party On! | Report to Admin

By Carl Jul 9th 2008 at 5:29 pm EDT

"Just 'cause you post a lot doesn't make you a fount of wisdom. "

lol. True.

I don't know. For the past 15 years, I've voted Democrat, even living in red states (VA and now TX) where my vote effectively didn't count. Now I think it may be time to stay home and send a message that way. I certainly don't like McCain, but if we got more Dems in Congress (with a backbone) they could effectively offset him (sometimes it's even good to have the two branches at opposites). On the other hand, Obama has (to me) just signaled that he doesn't necessarily stand by what he says. There's a difference between a transparent liar (McCain) and a con man (which Obama may be). Not sure how I feel about this. As of now, I won't be voting for him. He has 4 months to win back my vote and, to be honest, it's going to take a lot...

And PS sometimes "voting dem anyway" is not the way to go. There are times when the best message is one of protest, not grudging acquiescence.

Re: Party On! | Report to Admin

By Chiminea Jul 9th 2008 at 5:44 pm EDT

Well... I live in Virginia and have voted Democratic and gradually we have gone from red to Blue. The next Senator Warner will be a semi-progressive Democrat and Senator Webb is actually an old school republican convert. There is hope for Texas!

Re: Party On! | Report to Admin

By Carl Jul 9th 2008 at 11:25 pm EDT

I hope so! Right now, though, I'm not seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. :(

I agree. Obama just lost the election. | Report to Admin

By William from Los Angeles, CA Jul 9th 2008 at 8:58 pm EDT

You may not know it yet, Obama, but you will on Election Night: You're going to lose this election, and July 9 is the actual date you lost it. You betrayed your voters, you behaved like a Republican, you had no coherent explanation for your action - and people will not forget it. They may not vote for McCain, but it will be a cold day in hell before they vote for someone who promised to uphold the Constitution and then broke his promise and voted to violate the Constitution. I voted for you, and gave you money. I almost trusted you.

Now I trust that the ACLU and EFF will challenge this law in court and that it will be found unconstitutional, as it so plainly is, and you will be left holding the bag. But then you will have lost the election - against all odds, yet doing what Democrats in power so easily do, which is fail to stand for anything at all. You will never live this down. You can mark this day as the day you not only lost the election for president but started your own downhill slide to irrelevance.

Quick Question ... | Report to Admin

By Kim Who'sSane 4 Barry & Joey Jul 10th 2008 at 12:02 am EDT

Yo Carl, quick question. Lets suppose Obama voted No. what then ?

Re: Quick Question ... | Report to Admin

By Brandon V. in DFW Jul 10th 2008 at 8:30 pm EDT

I know many people are upset about this vote, it bothers me. But I realize no candidate is perfect, no candidate is going to agree with 100% or even 90% of what I want.

What amazes me on this issue is that Democrats never figured away to fight this battle in the public, knowing that a large majority of Americans don't support this new legislation.

Remember with the old FISA they could start wiretapping immediately & had to request a warrant within 72 hours. If I remember also, the secret court in its history only ever declined like 4 requests. Until the Bush gang decided they couldn't wait the possible 3 days to get their pretty much rubber stamped warrant, the old FISA was fine.

Here is the main reason why I can let this vote go and focus on everything else Senator Obama stands for. This would have likely been the death kneel for Senator Obama. The RNC and the 527's would have eaten him alive in the media.

Mainly because people listen to what they say, and it would not have been directed at we who already support the Senator but at people who might support him.

But even more because the Republican spin would have drowned out Democratic logic and branded him as not caring to protect America. They would have said he is trying to protect the terrorists, and people would have listened. If and when the Senator is elected POTUS he will have access to all of these requests. He will also be able to push new legislation with a larger Democratic controlled congress to overturn the legislation then.

Sometimes a flip flop is a flip flop at that moment, and sometimes it’s a setup to get what you want later. Patience, patience, patience.

We Democrats have got to be able to use the media better to get our message out.

Obama/Clark '08

Obama doesn't believe in the Constitution | Report to Admin

By William from Los Angeles, CA Jul 11th 2008 at 12:35 am EDT

The reason I can't let this issue go is because it's not just any old issue, the kind that is always with us in one form or another - war, economy, education, health, environment. This issue is about that unique document - words on parchment - that makes us who we are. Without it we are not Americans and we don't have the nation we want and love. The Fourth Amendment is what stands between you and a police state that needs no warrants to arrest you, search you and seize your property. The Founders wrote this amendment because that is exactly what King George was doing - and by god, King George is back!

I disagree that the Republicans would have made lunch out of Obama if he'd stood up and kept his promise. All eyes are on Obama - he's being watched carefully, and he commands attention. People are wanting to see what he stands for, see if he lives up to his word or breaks it. He can move public opinion, educate it, show the Right Stuff - he's in a unique position to influence legislation in the months before the election, and prospective voters are waiting for him to do that.

Instead, he broke his word. He totally caved. He voted for warrantless searches, he voted to LEGALIZE the 30+ felonies Bush and the telecoms had committed from at least 2001 up into 2007, and he voted to protect criminals from prosecution for felonies that carry prison terms of five years.

He showed the Wrong Stuff. He showed weakness, cynical calculation, and disdain for the people who put him where he is today, telling us, "you weren't listening." We were listening, and we heard what he wanted us to hear - the guy is a master of image-making. His hypocritical behavior shows me he doesn't deserve to be president. And if he truly believes in the gutting of the Fourth Amendment, then he doesn't deserve to be president. A president without a functioning Fourth Amendment is an incipient dictator - and that's no exaggeration. A choice between two men, neither of whom are devoted to the Constitution and the protection against search and arrest without warrants, is no choice at all. It's not one that I'm going to make. McCain or Obama - when it comes to what really matters to the U.S., there's no difference.

Re: Obama doesn't believe in the Constitution | Report to Admin

By Brandon V. in DFW Jul 12th 2008 at 5:32 pm EDT

William I have to disagree with you on this one. I don't think he showed weakness or disdain for all of us who have supported him.

I read an article last week where they interviewed this older white voter up north who was going to vote for Senator Obama. Then his friend of 40 years, a Republican, told him things like Obama is a Muslim, then the lady at the grocery store told him things like Obama won't say the pledge or put his hand over his heart. Now this guy is torn, do I believe the media or do I believe my neighbors who are getting their information from Fox and the RNC. In the end he says he may not be able to vote Obama because is starting to believe the things he is hearing.

The point is if he votes against this bill and the RNC and 527's launch and ad assault he loses way way more than that one vote when they label him as un-American.

Tell me last weekend when the media went crazy reporting Senator Obama flip flopped on Iraq did you believe them? Many many Americans including Democrats did, and why, because McCain the RNC had said so. So yes the RNC and 527's are good at getting Americans to believe their rhetoric much better than the DNC is.

Based on what you know and have come to like about Senator Obama do you truly expect President Obama to be spying on Americans and giving immunity to these companies? I 100% expect after he is elected that this will be struck down and changed within the first 100 days.

For all the promise and potential of Senator Obama I can happily vote for him and wait to see what happens on this issue.

And yes I am a huge huge supporter of the 4th Amendment and the Constitution. But in order to really make change you gotta get in there first.

Re: Obama doesn't believe in the Constitution | Report to Admin

By William from Los Angeles, CA Jul 13th 2008 at 10:56 am EDT

I want to trust that Obama would not use these new powers of domestic surveillance. But when I add his more conservative positions to this truly radical behavior toward the Constitution, and then add that sum to the long, dismal history of political promises, trust is a non-starter.

In the first place. fear is an appalling reason to vote to gut the Fourth Amendment. That includes fear of Republican 527s (which are broke) and the far more effective Internet/email campaign.

The facts about Obama's background are already out there, and his campaign is very proactive in countering the lies, yet still they persist. A lie about a vote against FISA could have been countered the same way without endangering the Constitution.

And don't forget: Even conservatives and racists are sick of Bush and the Republicans and want real change. They WANT Obama to be the leader they're looking for. He could have told them the FISA bill is un-American and unconstitutional, and most would have at least listened carefully.

The Constitution wasn't written for easy times, to be tossed aside in hard times, which Bush and Congress have brought us. The margin of the FISA vote, and the public yawn about the whole thing, make me seriously doubt both Americans' knowledge of the bill and their actual belief in the Constitution. "Hey, what do I care if the government is spying on me? My life is on Facebook! If I'm not doing anything wrong, I have nothing to fear."

That attitude could never spawn a revolution like 1775's. Do we have to endure tyranny before we protect ourselves? No. We have the Constitution.

After decades of voting, I've learned to never trust a politician. The drive for ultimate power is a red flag in itself. Promises are mere warm air, as Obama himself has proven. The Founders, for good reason, would never in a million years have accepted a promise that a president wouldn't abuse power or that an unconstitutional law would be repealed within the first 100 days (and Obama has NOT promised this).

That's why they gave us the Constitution. It's no overstatement to say it's all we have between us and dictatorship. The opportunity to show what he's made of was delivered to him on a silver platter, and he threw it away, to the great detriment of the Constitution and freedom.

Obama's U-turns documented by BBC (also McSame's) | Report to Admin

By Alf Steinbach Jul 10th 2008 at 1:07 pm EDT

I'm Norwegian, and came here via a link in one of Norway's main papers "Dagbladet", which reported Obama's latest U-turn with the headline "The Republican Obama?", Link. ;-)

BBC has a nice summary of Obama's U-turns: Link.

It seems the US system and the way the people of the USA evaluate their politicians is such that in order to become President of the USA, the politician has to (1) proclaim that he (it's invariably a he, it must be a he) is insane, i.e. religious, believing in telepathic communication with some almighty alien in outer space, (2) must demonstrate skills at lying and deceit, and (3) must support the death penalty and be against abortion etc., just like other not-yet-civilized barbaric middle-ages countries headed by religious zealots, such as Iran.

Good luck, USA.

You'll need it.

Cheers,

- Alf

Obama's U-turns documented by BBC (also McSame's) | Report to Admin

By Alf Steinbach Jul 10th 2008 at 1:09 pm EDT

I'm Norwegian, and came here via a link in one of Norway's main papers "Dagbladet", which reported Obama's latest U-turn with the headline "The Republican Obama?", Link. ;-)

BBC has a nice summary of Obama's U-turns: Link.

It seems the US system and the way the people of the USA evaluate their politicians is such that in order to become President of the USA, the politician has to (1) proclaim that he (it's invariably a he, it must be a he) is insane, i.e. religious, believing in telepathic communication with some almighty alien in outer space, (2) must demonstrate skills at lying and deceit, and (3) must support the death penalty and be against abortion etc., just like other not-yet-civilized barbaric middle-ages countries headed by religious zealots, such as Iran.

Good luck, USA.

You'll need it.

Cheers,

- Alf

Re: Obama's U-turns documented by BBC (also McSame's) | Report to Admin

By Brandon V. in DFW Jul 12th 2008 at 5:51 pm EDT

Let me make sure I understand that this link you provided says what I think it says. It lists things that both Senators have changed/flip flopped on or may.

It lists 5 things that Senator McCain has shifted on, not that he might but he has shifted on; Immigration, The Christian Right, Interrogation Rules, Guantanamo, and Oil Drilling.

Then it lists Senator Obama's shifts or possible shifts; Campaign Finance, FISA, Gun Control, Iraq, and Free Trade.

Campaign Finance - I wholeheartedly support him pulling out of the "public financing" system and letting the public continue to finance his campaign. An overwhelming number of his supporters agree with this also. Good Shift

FISA - I already stated my opinion on this earlier but I will list as. Bad Shift

Gun Control - I like the Senator support the 2nd Amendment, and like the Senator I think states and towns have the right to enact sound gun laws. I don't think a 15 year old should be able to buy a gun. I don't think an adult should be able to buy 15 guns in one day without a backgrond check. That is supporting the 2nd Amendment with states able to make sound gun laws. This is what he has always said and believes. NO Shift

Iraq - He hasn't changed anything on Iraq, he still said he is going to bring the troops home within 13-16 months. He will be refining his policy, which means getting more input from Generals to help him refine the policy. NO Shift

Free Trade - He hasn't changed his mind, and he hasn't made any major or even minor annocement that he has officially changed position. So what has he flipped on with Free trade? NO Shift

We know for a fact Senator McCain has truly flipped on issues. We know Senator Obama has flipped on FISA, and made a smart decision to decline the only 85 million of "public financing" because he can raise more. But hasn't flipped on anything else.

WAKE UP PEOPLE STOP BELIEVING THE SPIN.

Obama's U-turns documented by BBC (also McSame's) | Report to Admin

By Alf Steinbach Jul 10th 2008 at 1:13 pm EDT

I'm Norwegian, and came here via a link in one of Norway's main papers "Dagbladet", which reported Obama's latest U-turn with the headline "The Republican Obama?", Link. ;-)

BBC has a nice summary of Obama's U-turns: Link.

It seems the US system and the way the people of the USA evaluate their politicians is such that in order to become President of the USA, the politician has to (1) proclaim that he (it's invariably a he, it must be a he) is insane, i.e. religious, believing in telepathic communication with some almighty alien in outer space, (2) must demonstrate skills at lying and deceit, and (3) must support the death penalty and be against abortion etc., just like other not-yet-civilized barbaric middle-ages countries headed by religious zealots, such as Iran.

Good luck, USA.

You'll need it.

Cheers,

- Alf

in europe | Report to Admin

By Unknown user Jul 10th 2008 at 2:34 pm EDT

all people talk about is that this is a really important election for America. If the USA does not take a clearly different route from the bush politics, it will be impossible for the USA to ever get back the position they used to have in this world.
that Obama seems to represents more of the same,regarding lack of personal freedom and the buliding of a police state. its really not a good look. Seems to me you all think you can just build your N.W.O without interference from the general public. But theres really a wake up show going on in Euope.
It doesnt help you that you own the media when nobody believes a word printed or said in it.
i actually believed Obama could be the change fo a while...now theres even less hope than ever...if the USA didnt run politics the way they have or the last hundred years, there wouldnt be no need for a police state in the first place. but good luck...

so hows | Report to Admin

By Unknown user Jul 10th 2008 at 2:46 pm EDT

the american union getting along?
seen anything to the amero lately? or will we have to wait for the total crackdown of the dollar first?

any invasions on top of the list anytime soon?
oh, iran...seems reasonable...they have oil.

Barack Obama i believed it for a while, but we can now all see that you are just another puppet ...
i'm not even sure there wont be another "incident" that will make it possible for Bush going into dictatorship.
how many millions of dollar did you spend on your campaign?

People are fed up with the lies...oki?
you wanna keep the masses calm and passive? give us food and peace,,there wont be threat for another thousand years

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