Organizing for America | Winning the right way, the Obama way.: Discussion between brothers.

Post from Winning the right way, the Obama way.:

Discussion between brothers.

By LV Duckworth - Mar 20th, 2008 at 3:49 pm EDT

Comments | Mail to a Friend | Report Objectionable Content

Yesterday, I had a debate with my eldest brother, he a conservative and I an avid Obama supporter.

He began, "Just thought I would stop by to hear what your thoughts are all this."

I responded, "You mean Barack Obama?"

He said, "Yes of course, just thought, well, I would get your perspective."

I said, "I am understandably upset because people are unable to see the manipulation of the press, unwilling to except an honorable man at his word, when even his opponents have acknowledged "Obama does not hold the political opinions of his Pastor."" and "That he certainly is no racist".

My brother asked, "But what about the speech?"

I said, "Profoundly beautiful."

He then suggested, "But it didn't answer the question."

I was perplexed, I didn't understood what question he thought was supposed to be answered.

I thought for a moment and asked, "What question did he not answer?"

"Well, the only question that matters of course." he pushed, with a grin.

Again I asked, and he finally said, "Is he a patriot?"

In honest surprise I questioned, "Thats what you think everyone is asking?!".

I questioned, "How could someone think him not a patriot?"

Knowing my brother to an intelligent and reasoning man, I was shocked at what he said next.

He said, "Well he doesn't wear a flag pin and he doesn't put his hand on his heart when saying the pledge of allegiance?"

I stated, "Really! You believe that? Of course Barack Obama is a patriot."

I offered, "Barack has explained why he does not wear a flag pin, he has said that he believes that such symbolism is far too often used as a cudgel, a means to project a false patriotism for political ends and that he prefers to show his patriotism through his deeds, not symbolism." and in response to the other, "That picture of him standing without hand on heart was not taken during the Pledge of Allegiance, it taken while listening to the National Anthem, Hand on heart is not tradition, rising is. - you agree that is correct?"

He nodded in the affirmative and said, "How come I haven't heard that?"

I said, "I don't know, he said it, its out there, others have reported the anthem thing as well. Perhaps you need to expand your sources of info?"

"Here we go again, your gonna attack Rush, right?." he quipped.

I replied, "Rush is not a news source, he is an opinioner, nothing else and I dislike him for what I believe are his rantings, but will not allow you to change the subject to him."

"Hmmpf." he muttered.

I will tell you why I believe Barack Obama to be a patriot, "Barack has spent his life proving his patriotism, from his first days of working on the streets of Chicago, promoting and supporting the homeless and less fortunate." "Each and every step in his life's journey has reaffirmed his commitment to making this nation a more perfect union and a better America." "He has dedicated himself to the study of law to further benefit those that he strove to aid, he chose to teach rather than pursue a more lucrative legal career, because he believed that people should give back to the community from which they came."

Then I asked rhetorically, "How can that be seen as anything but patriotic?, but didn't allow him a chance to respond.

Again I continued, "His expertise is Constitutional Law, chosen because he believes in its precepts and in its being the most important document left us by our founding father, within it contains everything that it means to be an American. He ran for the Illinois Senate not just advance himself, but saw it to be a logical step in his desire to change a system he thought needed improvement. Not because he wanted to tear down a system, but to build it up, to make it more closely represent the perfect union. True, each step lead to greater power, but never did he wield that power to damage the system of government that we love. You may not see it that way from a political aspect, but you must at least acknowledge it as reasonable to assume."

This man, Barack Obama, the man I support is a Patriot, he showed it again with the speech he gave on Tuesday, that he wrote and delivered - he presented to us, his understanding that this Union that we call the United States of America, can fulfill its prophesied destiny, but only if we face the things that still divide us with honest discourse."

I have no doubt that my brother will still vote for McCain, but at least he now understands where I stand and why!

Reader Comments	Comments RSS
Comments are closed for this post.

Obama '08 | Report to Admin

By alyce rocco Mar 20th 2008 at 4:15 pm EDT

Very good. I tend to lose my temper and forgot the 'talking points' you posed here.

I have never heard anything so silly in my life: he does not wear a flag lapel pin? Is there some law I did not hear about that commands people need to wear pins? Men need to wear pins? I have always hated pins. Oh, I have worn some of those peace symbol buttons on my jackets or pocket books, but basically I am not into lapel pins or much any jewelry myself.

I seldom watch television and happened to have it on when the "lapel pin" horrifying news broke. I got confused because~you know how they put these teasers so you will stick around through commercials to wait upon when they actually tell it? The story was about a lady that had to remove her bra going through a security check point. I got tired of waiting upon the actual stories and shut off the TV.

So, in my mind, I thought Obama had set off a metal detector and decided not to wear his pin or something like that. I could not believe all the noise all over the internet starting the next day.

A lapel pin???? I am floored by the people. Who cares if we blow children's body parts across the streets of Iraq, this man does not wear a lapel pin, oh my. Who cares if Clinton or McCain take us into Iran when we are indebted to China to pay for Iraq, the man does not wear a lapel pin, oh my.

Who cares if the Clintons are known for a long history of corruption and her health INSURANCE discriminates against certain segments of the population, he does not wear a lapel pin, oh my.

A Bush/Clinton dynasty in DC is much better than having a man who does not wear a lapel pin, oh boy. Who cares if we give an impeached ex President a 3rd term in office via being a close personal adviser to his wife...

...sigh.

No offense to your brother, of course. I prefer McCain supporters to Hucakabee or Romney or Clinton ones, even though I think McCain too old and do not agree with his stance on some issues~especially the war in Iran. Have not he and Hillary learned any lesson from Iraq?

Re: Obama '08 | Report to Admin

By alyce rocco Mar 20th 2008 at 4:17 pm EDT

Even though I do not agree with McCain's positions on issues~most especially Iran~at least he is not corrupt, so more acceptable than people who vote Clintons.

Re: Obama '08 | Report to Admin

By LV Duckworth Mar 20th 2008 at 4:57 pm EDT

Thank you Alyce for your comments.

No argument from me, but he is family and I love him.
I know he relies far too much on having other conservative pundits interpret the news, synthesis it and regurgitate it back up as fact.

And sadly, no matter how much I say he won't change that way of dealing with politics - He is fond of saying "You get to enthralled - its just a game, nothing more."

Re: Obama '08 | Report to Admin

By Dee C. Mar 20th 2008 at 6:13 pm EDT

Nice conversation...kind of conversation I generally have with my brother- difference is- he is too Liberal. I am Conservative in front of him..:-)

At least your brother is supporting McCain..he is a good man compared to Hillary.

However, Gov. Huckabee surprised me yesterday when I heard him talking abt Obama.

Re: Obama '08 | Report to Admin

By LV Duckworth Mar 20th 2008 at 6:24 pm EDT

Huckabee didn't surprise me, he is an honest man and is has seen prejudice first hand.

Thank you for your comment.

Re: Obama '08 | Report to Admin

By C. Morgan from WA Mar 20th 2008 at 11:00 pm EDT

L.V.,
I can appreciate the frustration of this kind of conversational impass.
You must not give up on your brother.
Challenge your brother to discuss an issue that is important besides the superficial lapel pin debate.
You must know something about his value system as you are siblings.
Find out what you can agree on first, such as the importance of the democratic process.
Build a concensus if at all possible.
In the mean time remember there are lots of people, like us who do get the big picture.
I'm encouraged that he does want to know what you think, but possibly you should "call" him on his attitude. I don't know. It's hard to tell without being there, but being a fan of Rush.....
Sibling dynamics aside I think you handled it well.
Thank you for all your thoughtful contributions to the blog, you are a gem!

Re: Obama '08 | Report to Admin

By LV Duckworth Mar 21st 2008 at 2:45 am EDT

Oddly, I have little in common with him aside from parentage and siblings, he is 15 years my elder and grew up in a different time and lifestyle. He calls me an enigma and I find him rigid in thought.

But, still we try.

Re: Obama '08 | Report to Admin

By C. Morgan from WA Mar 23rd 2008 at 4:28 pm EDT

re: reply C. Morgan....Family ties.

Here is a link to Bill Moyers' interview with the co directors of the Tomas Young documentary Body of War, P. Donohue and E. Spiro.
Tomas' family is divided along political lines also.
I hope it gives you some insight into how another family handles its differences.

Link

Re: Obama '08 | Report to Admin

By LV Duckworth Mar 23rd 2008 at 8:09 pm EDT

Very moving video, thank you for the link!

Re: Obama '08 | Report to Admin

By Steve Mar 20th 2008 at 10:23 pm EDT

I have seen the flag pin argument touted in main stream news articles. I really thought the argument was just a slur cheer; that it had no intellectual merit. Obviously, some literate people have not thought about their charge. The most powerful indictment which I have seen to lack of developed reasoning is that photos of George Bush, Dick Cheney, or John McCain wearing flag pins seem nonexistant. Even if such a photo can be found, its rarity demonstrates wearing flag pins is not a measure applied to others.

At worst, maybe Barack started the trend and the others have followed. Imitation is the highest form of flattery.

Re: Obama '08 | Report to Admin

By LV Duckworth Mar 21st 2008 at 2:58 am EDT (Updated Mar 21st 2008 at 3:00 am EDT)

Barack\'s position on not wearing flag lapel pins, reminds me of Johnny Cash\'s opposition to wearing colors. Of course, Cash wore only black to the end of his days in defiance of mankind\'s violence and hatred throughout the world.

Re: Obama '08 | Report to Admin

By Viva Obama so proud to have voted for HOPE and to have rejected the hype Mar 23rd 2008 at 10:17 pm EDT

Someone is yet to answer my question and I'd prefer it's a republican.

1)Why do republicans think they own American patriotism?
2)Why do they think displaying the flag on their lapel or front yard or cars signifies the strength of their patriotism?
3)Why is it ok for them to have radical pastors who say unpatriotic things and yet are not seen as unpatriotic but opposite for democrats?
4)why would they vote against themselves by voting for a man like, first Bush and now, Mccain over a man like Barack?
5)Why can't they understand patriotism lies also in exercising our rights and performing our duties and responsibilities for the greater good of the country (ie voting for the right man for the job and not blindly voting)?

Some republicans get it and are making the choice but there are others who don't and I hope they ask and answer these questions.

My Thoughts on Your Conversation | Report to Admin

By West Coast Canuck who wishes she could vote, and contribute $$ Mar 20th 2008 at 4:57 pm EDT

That moved me almost to tears. I think the conversation you had with your brother is probably a boilerplate of many conversations that have taken place in the last few days - I HOPE so, at any rate.

The dialogue clearly demonstrates the misunderstanding, the false statements made by the right-wing MSM in their attempts (feeling threatened) to silence Barack because of what he represents - CHANGE. Barack represents everything they hate, because it will mean they will lose their hold on America, literally.

I think, most seriously, you might consider sending this blog that you wrote to all your friends, and ask them to pass it on - make it go viral. Worded the way you did, makes it very understandable. Put another way - it is not threatening. Nobody likes to be told they are wrong, or uninformed, ignorant, biased, call it what you will. Your piece is worded is such a way there is no threat - because of this, the trap door mentality caused by a person's ego, will not be activated. This will allow critical thinking to take place.

Heck, it's worth a try. Your piece made very good sense and I appreciate not only that you wrote about it, but that you posted a link to this blog so I could read it, and others like me.

Thank you so much. (And I'm very happy for you that you had such a worthwhile conversation with your bro. Heartwarming).

Karen

"How come I haven't heard that?" | Report to Admin

By BJ Mar 20th 2008 at 7:09 pm EDT

Your brother asked, "How come I haven't heard that?"

The reason is because people don't want to know the truth. They would rather believe the slurs and sound bites and many are too lazy to check out what they hear.

I am "for" Barack because I have done the research in all of the areas that are important to me and I believe that Barack is the only logical choice. But more than that he is the BEST choice I've had in my 40 years of voting. I've been voting for a United States President since 1968 and this will be my 11th time doing so. There has been NO candidate in all that time with the promise we have in Barack. Period.

Re: "How come I haven't heard that?" | Report to Admin

By LV Duckworth Mar 20th 2008 at 7:35 pm EDT

Whereas, your opinion has considerable merit, I weighed my words on this point so as not to offend. I have found that once a person has had their desire to know the truth challenged, they become less receptive to further conversation.

Is he a patriot? | Report to Admin

By ★Holly♐HH Honored to Have Helped with This Historic Campaign! ★ Eugene Mar 21st 2008 at 6:55 am EDT

This was very interesting to read, especially the surfacing of how your brother frames this around the question:

Is he a patriot?

BO speechwriters need to think about this, and BO needs to think about the importance of what he may see as superficial gestures but that to others are important expressions of patriotism. Wearing a cross doesn't make me a Christian, but I can also recognize and respect people for whom such tangible, visible, signs are important.

truth | Report to Admin

By LOVE Mar 22nd 2008 at 1:20 am EDT

Don't be surprised when your brother votes for Barack.

Re: truth | Report to Admin

By KC Woman for Obama Mar 22nd 2008 at 7:59 pm EDT

Y agree. He keeps coming back to you to talk.

Re: truth | Report to Admin

By KC Woman for Obama Mar 22nd 2008 at 8:05 pm EDT

Y agree. He keeps coming back to you to talk.

I Love Your Brother | Report to Admin

By John from Santa Barbara, CA Mar 22nd 2008 at 2:19 am EDT

I understand him. Hell, I am him.

Change is hard and nobody needs more work to do.
Public service is hard. And nobody pays you for it. But isn't America worth working for?

I read what you said:

"He said, "Well he doesn't wear a flag pin and he doesn't put his hand on his heart when saying the pledge of allegiance?"

I swho tated, "Really! You believe that? Of course Barack Obama is a patriot."

Did he not see that Eliot Spitzer wore a flag pin when he resigned last week? Did he not see that Bush wore a flag lapel pin when he sent 4,000 young Americans to die in Iraq?

I know who your brother is. We love our country.

He was offended by the Rev. Wright and he wonders why Obama didn't leave his church.

I know why.

BO didn't turn against his faith community for the same reason I didn't turn against my country when my President was wrong about Iraq. How could I?

I love my country and I want my President to represent what I love about it.

Thanks for your post.

Thanks for letting me comment.

Agree to Disagree, but love your brother.

We're all together in this together.

John

Re: I Love Your Brother | Report to Admin

By LV Duckworth Mar 22nd 2008 at 12:17 pm EDT

Thank you John,
I respect your views and I agree - for good or bad we are all in this together.

My brother is fond of saying, "Change, change what? Obama never tells us what he wants to change. Why can't you democrats except that we live in the best country in the world or just leave if you hate it so much?

It may be a generational thing, but to me that is an absurd supposition.

Of course I love my country, but every time I say the pledge of allegiance, I reaffirm my understanding that those words "one nation, under God, indevisible with liberty and justice for all." represent an ideal. Those words demand that we strive to change America to more completely represent that ideal.

I have heard that there are people that won't say the pledge because they don't believe it to be true, but they are missing that very point.

Thank John for posting your comment.

great post | Report to Admin

By ☆ TengoEsperanza ☆ --- Love in Action Mar 22nd 2008 at 2:47 am EDT

great post! It is wonderful that, although any thinking person can be frustrated at times, you engaged your bro with well reasoned arguments. Can't believe ANYBODY still listens to Rush, but I think there is hope for all, even his listeners. None for Rush himself though--LOL.
Thank u for sharing this, very compelling.
My mom and I totally agree, & Bill Clinton's "two people who love America" comment today had us absolutely livid. Sen. Obama is putting his whole being on the line every day, body & soul, his reputation, his personal life, everything, just to give voice to We the People and serve this country. If that's not patriotism, then I don't know what is.

Some thoughts I'd like to share | Report to Admin

By Elizabeth from Depoe Bay Mar 22nd 2008 at 2:51 am EDT

I'm a 66 year old caucasion woman who deeply respects and admires Barack Obama. I live in a community of people who feel the same way. How long we have waited for such a leader and statesman to appear on the scene. "Carpe Diem"..."if not now, when?" It is imperative that we stick together and elect this amazing human being as our next president.

Here are a few thoughts on unity through action inspired by ObamaWorks(the community street cleaning project in Philadelphia, PA), the suggestion to attend a religious service other than one's usual church, temple or synagogue, and the rally to boycot offensive and opinionated media, etc. Together, we can create change not just by contributing money to the campaign, but by the actions we take in our individual communities and spheres of influence.

What if in every community across this country, Obamanites organize clean-ups on a regular basis? Surely this might get some press, but more importantly, it will bring people together for a common cause. It will create respect for the environment we live in and an appreciation of what we can accomplish when we work together.

Wbat if we all stop supporting Chinese imports by boycotting Walmart? I, myself have refused to cross a Walmart threshold. I will not support unethical business practices. I do my best to buy American made products and support local merchants rather than the chain or big box stores.

What if all around the country Obama supporters start ObamaCarPools? Just imagine the gas and money saved...almost like a protest against the exhorbitant prices at the pumps. Meanwhile we will create community among commuters, mothers driving children to school, etc., and will contribute less pollution to the air we breathe.

These thoughts or ideas can take-on a life of their own. They are simple positive ways we can create evidence across America that we, the supporters of the Obama movement, truly walk our talk as we follow Barack's lead. I believe we have great potential to make a positive impact on behalf of this campaign and our communities. If we are willing to join with friends and neighbors to make a positive impact in our own neighborhood, we're half way there. Each of us, on our own, might be able to move a molehill, but together, we can move mountains.

Thanks for your input if you feel so inclined.

Re: Some thoughts I'd like to share | Report to Admin

By LOVE Mar 22nd 2008 at 3:00 am EDT

yippeeeeeeeeeeeeee Someone else who has never been in a W--- M----. place !! I can't even say that hateful word.

Obama '08 | Report to Admin

By Elizabeth, RI - ain't got nothing but LOVE for ya Mar 22nd 2008 at 3:00 am EDT

You go girl...Good Job...It's sad that others can't say the same about their candidates. Again...great job...

Re: Obama '08 | Report to Admin

By LV Duckworth Mar 22nd 2008 at 12:24 pm EDT

Hey I am a guy, but thanks! LOL

Yes, my parents had a strange sense of humor.

Thanks LV | Report to Admin

By Bettye (IAG) Mar 22nd 2008 at 6:44 am EDT

LV,
I'm glad that I was curious enought to find out what you wanted to share. I am so profoundly grateful that you would do what you did for your brother...because when you enlighten one, you enlighten all. You didn't miss that great opportunity in that one moment to share with him your understanding - our understanding of what it is to be an American and a patriot! It's ok if he votes for McCain, the reward really is the fundamental shift in his thinking and perspective that will serve him, your family and this nation well in days and years to come. I applaud you...I am proud of you!

Kudos | Report to Admin

By I.believe "ready to work hard to get Barry elected" Mar 23rd 2008 at 10:52 pm EDT

I thought your response was excellent.

Re: Kudos | Report to Admin

By LV Duckworth Mar 24th 2008 at 12:47 am EDT

Thank you both!

Content on blogs in My.BarackObama represents the opinions of community members and in no way should be interpreted as endorsed or approved by the campaign.