Organizing for America | Ian Wright's Blog: I've been thinking quite a bit about Clinton's shift

I've been thinking quite a bit about Clinton's shift

By Ian - Jul 10th, 2008 at 7:03 pm EDT

Also listed in: President Obama, Please Get FISA Right

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I've been thinking quite a bit about Clinton's position on FISA. I still don't trust her based on many things ranging from items as big as her stance on Iraq to as (politically) minor as her stance on restricting video game purchases (because, to quote Mrs. Lovejoy on the Simpsons "Won't somebody think of the children?").

Still, I have to wonder if Clinton had a crisis of conscience after Iraq (among other things) cost her the election. I've seen some thoughts that she just voted against FISA to undermine Obama, but I disagree completely. If she wanted to undermine Obama she never had to do any campaigning for him. I think she's starting to realize just how much her position on Iraq cost her. One has to wonder how this is going to haunt Obama... Is the loss of enthusiasm from people like us going to cause issues throughout the election and possibly beyond.

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She has to | Report to Admin

By John P Jul 10th 2008 at 7:14 pm EDT

She has to campaign for him. She really has no choice if she plans to continue to be a force in the Democratic Party. She would be seen (more than she already is) as a spoiler and would lose any clout she has. If she does not bring herself and her supporters around to supporting Obama, she would be blamed for his loss, if (God forbid) he should lose.

Re: She has to | Report to Admin

By Ian Jul 10th 2008 at 8:05 pm EDT

Yeah, you're probably right on that point. I still have trouble believing that she's trying to undermine Obama's authority with this FISA vote, though.

shifts with the wind | Report to Admin

By John P Jul 10th 2008 at 7:16 pm EDT

Besides, she shifts with the wind. Her voting record is as right-wing as McCain's - Patriot Act, Iraq War, etc.

Re: shifts with the wind | Report to Admin

By Ian Jul 10th 2008 at 8:00 pm EDT

Not saying that it isn't. Just wondering if this decision to vote against FISA was caused by realization that her voting record crushed her chances of getting the nomination.

Hillary, what to think? | Report to Admin

By Pete Jul 10th 2008 at 7:21 pm EDT

I actually became an Obama supporter mostly because Hillary's antics (and those of her staff, .. and husband) became so ridiculous, so calculating (often calculating wrong), that I realized how "sensible" Barack could be in comparison.

I'm really puzzled by her vote on FISA -- of course, I agree with it, but I'm left to wonder WHY... also. I think it could be the "undermine" strategy after all. I certainly have changed my views, (at least towards not ACTIVELY supporting Barack). I'm hoping that things change and I get over that. But it's really disturbing me that I'm starting to wonder if my disdain for Hillary was misdirected after all...

Re: Hillary, what to think? | Report to Admin

By Ian Jul 10th 2008 at 8:04 pm EDT

"But it's really disturbing me that I'm starting to wonder if my disdain for Hillary was misdirected after all... "

For what it's worth, I don't think it was misdirected. Whatever her stance is now, I think that she would have continued along her merry way if it weren't for her defeat in the primaries. Her track record certainly indicated that direction, as did her associations (just look at the staff jumping to Fox news and joining forces with Karen Hughs)

Hillary's big mouth | Report to Admin

By Mohammad Yusef Jul 10th 2008 at 8:23 pm EDT

The list is long, but two of Hillary's less than choice examples of verbal diarrhea forced me to stop defending her and permanently distance myself from anything she said.
1) the Bosnia sniper fire lies. The lie was stupid enough, but taking a week to stop defending it, and giving only a tepid mea culpa without actually admitting it was a complete lie and fabrication put her beyond respect and beyond believability.
2) The statement that she would TOTALLY OBLITERATE Iran if it attacked Israel. 12 Million people in Tehran, 66 million in the country. That would be the biggest genocide in the history of the earth, worse than Hitler, Stalin, and all of WW2.

Dennis Kucinich kept the high ground throughout his campaign, but reality forced him out. Obama had some problems but he had momentum and it was possible to give him some slack, hoping he would evolve into something even better than how he started. I made the mistake of starting to think of him as someone I could be proud of, somebody I could trust to do the right thing.

There is an old saying from Roman Empire times, roughly translated "The higher the monkey climbs, the more you see his rear end". That is often the way with most politicians. In the past 2 weeks, it has started to apply to Obama, not just Hillary and McCain. The more he gains in power and confidence, the more his ugly side comes into view.

With the faith based intiative sell out, the sucking up to the zionist lobby group after he secured the nomination, his reversal on public funding, his bellicose rhetoric on Iran, his position changes on getting out of Iraq, and now the unforgivable betrayal with the FISA vote and the immunity for criminal activity by the telecoms, we are seeing his darker side more every day.

It is too late to get another candidate, we are stuck with Obama, and our only hope is to use our collective clout to steer him closer to the right path.

Although we can no longer trust him to automatically do the right thing, we should at least try to force this thing back on the right path. We have no other choice. He wasn't nice to us, we don't have to be nice to him, we have to get him to get on track.

hey | Report to Admin

By Karen-Missouri Ozarks for Obama! Jul 10th 2008 at 7:41 pm EDT

Hey...hey...I haven't lost enthusiasm and neither have most of Obama's supporters. OBAMA 2008!

Hillary just kept her promise and she knew almost all the Senate was going to vote to keep at least some semblance of national security intact. It can be changed later. Her vote just appeased some of her supporters. That's ok. No one ever said all Senators had to agree with all Senators all the time.

Re: hey | Report to Admin

By Ian Jul 10th 2008 at 7:58 pm EDT

I don't know that there's any way to quantify your statement that most haven't lost enthusiasm. According to the only polls I've seen on the matter, there are a significant percentage of people who feel every bit as betrayed as I do.

That's why I label myself an "Obama Voter" instead of an "Obama Supporter" as I used to. Senator Obama could have chosen to stand firm that giving retroactive immunity to lawbreakers was wrong. He could have made a strong stand on the need for effective judicial oversight. That was one of the most important issues that drew me to him; The idea that protecting my ability to talk, email, and IM without the merest thought that someone in my government would decide that I should be monitored.

He betrayed us on that important issue and that sucked away my enthusiasm for him. I'll still vote for him, because McCain is that much worse. I'm incredibly disheartened that I'm forced to look at him as a lesser evil, though, and it strips away one of his best advantages.

He probably still has a good number of supporters who choose, for one reason or another, to overlook his record (statements and actions) on FISA. But for those who feel that the integrity of the 4th Amendment is critical (civil libertarians on both the left and, importantly, right) there is a substantial loss of enthusiasm leading us to no longer pledge money, or even eagerly talk about the Senator with friends to stir up more enthusiasm. A vote is important, don't get me wrong, but a person deciding to vote for a lesser evil doesn't have much drag for more votes.

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