Organizing for America | Amanda Scott's Blog: Watch Barack, Hillary Clinton, and Caroline Kennedy LIVE in New York

Maybe? | Report to Admin

By Lynne From Bellwether MO Jul 9th 2008 at 7:57 pm EDT

Can it be??

Re: Maybe? | Report to Admin

By Dave Knox Jul 9th 2008 at 7:57 pm EDT

yes by 2 seconds - congrats

Re: Maybe? | Report to Admin

By Adrianne Jul 9th 2008 at 8:00 pm EDT

anyone know where we can go to read the text of the FISA bill? I'd like to read exactly what was passed because it seems like people are throwing different ideas about what it allows the government to do.

Re: Maybe? | Report to Admin

By Adrianne Jul 9th 2008 at 8:06 pm EDT

Found it. Thanks anyways Link

Evening Links | Report to Admin

By Celtic Jul 9th 2008 at 8:15 pm EDT

VIDEO- Barack Around the Clock Link
VIDEO- John McCain Jokes About Killing Iranians Link
VIDEO- John McCain Gets Testy With Vet Over GI Bill, Lies Link
African-American Network to Cover Democratic Convention -- But Not Republican Link
Networks May Cut Coverage of Convention Link
VIDEO- John McCain- " Social Security is a Disgrace" Link
Video: Obama on Iran; women and the economy; "shifting" Link
VIDEO- A New DNC Web Ad Goes After McCain’s Flip Flops On Iraq Link
John Sidney McCain's Fake Press Conference Link
Obama triples Missouri staff Link
Poll-itics: Obama ahead nationally in all polls Link
Jesse Jackson to Obama: I'm sorry I got caught Link
McCain can't get it up for Viagra question Link

Blog Posts | Report to Admin

By Stephen C. Rose in NYC Jul 9th 2008 at 8:25 pm EDT

Please check out link one.

Lee Atwater "Confession"? Not Exactly.

Link

Halperin on FISA

Link

PPP Sends Obama Good News from NC

Link

Can Bob Herbert Read?

Link

McCain's Tax Lies (Continued)

Link

Barack Was Right To Reject Public Campaign Finance

Link

Re: Blog Posts | Report to Admin

By Srepen Jul 10th 2008 at 4:58 pm EDT

Link Obama talks about glass ceilings, child care, equal pay
Link Obama, McCain battle for blue-collar vote
Link Obama to McCain: We Dont Need Another Dr. Phil
Link Obama accepts Jesse Jackson's apology
Link Democrats take Obama shift in stride
Link YouTube - Barack Obama at the LULAC Convention
Link A Conversation With Barack Obama
Link How Jesse Jackson Did Barack Obama a Big Favor
Link Gallup Daily: 7/10/08 Obama Retains Small Advantage
Link TheVote: Oh Say Can You Hear?
Link Obama Talks about Abortion, Equal Pay, and the Supreme Court
Link Obama triples Missouri staff
Link Obama's late primary campaign could help now
Link Obama looks to turn Georgia blue
Link Obamas sit down for first family interview

FISA | Report to Admin

By Unknown user Jul 9th 2008 at 8:31 pm EDT

Now my family and I are really on the fence about Mr. Obama and his pandering to the right for voting for Bush's FISA bill.

Mrs. Clinton had the correct vote.

Too bad we cannot have a real roll call vote at the Convention and see how Mr. Obama fares.

He is rapidly losing me, a die-hard Democrat. He is unlikely to get a dime from me. I'll send money to Rahm Emmanuel and the DNC for the Senate races.

I may vot No on both McCain and Obama.....although Obama is better that McCain, of course. But increasingly I wonder if Mr. Obama is really up to the job.

What a shame to be so desperate to be elected.

Shame on Plouffe and Axelrod.

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Citizen Earth For Obama Jul 9th 2008 at 8:42 pm EDT (Updated Jul 10th 2008 at 1:50 am EDT)

This post has been removed due to offensive or disrespectful content.

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Christine "No Distractions" O'Bama Jul 9th 2008 at 8:51 pm EDT

Hmmmm... this post sounds familiar...

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Smuhamm Jul 9th 2008 at 9:34 pm EDT

All of your hard work FOR Obama will not go to waste, We Need him at THIS TIME, He is for All Americans,unity must come at THIS TIME, and in your heart you know it. Do not let what you think is wrong go for naught, He knows what he is doing. Believe that it will turn out fine, and it will. What are you afraid of. There is nothing to fear but fear itself. You did not make a mistake by voting and working for Obama, if that is true. He is a politician with a HEART and brilliant intelligence, he knows what he is doing.Continue the faith which is "Things not seen, in evidence of things hope for."

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Mike from Pyote, TX Jul 9th 2008 at 9:45 pm EDT

Citizen,

What would you expect

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By ♥ Tanya ♥ Jul 9th 2008 at 10:10 pm EDT

Senator Clinton voted FOR the FISA bill a few months ago. You know, the one that gave immunity to the telecomm's against CRIMINAL lawsuits????

She has now voted against the softer version of the same bill.

Interesting. Political pandering, anyone?

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Kim, part of the Greatest lobbying force Washington has ever seen Jul 9th 2008 at 10:50 pm EDT

I had not realized she voted for the worse version of this bill. That is interesting.

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Kim, part of the Greatest lobbying force Washington has ever seen Jul 9th 2008 at 9:07 pm EDT

Senator Obama's position on the death penalty can be found in his book The Audacity of Hope which predates this election. Personally, I don't like the death penalty for any reason -- let the violent person sit in prison contemplating their crime for their entire natural life (I am vengeful, but simply in a different way than most).

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Hélène, with an H... like in Barack ! Jul 9th 2008 at 9:17 pm EDT

Yes :

From The Audacity of Hope, published in 2006, "Values" chapter, page 58 in the Tree Rivers Press edition :

"The year that Democrats regained the majority in the Illinois senate, I sponsored a bill to require the videotaping of interrogations and confessions in capital cases. While the evidence tells me that the death penalty does little to deter crime, I believe there are some crimes - mass murder, the rape and the murder of a child - so heinous, so beyond the pale, that the community is justified in expressing the full measure of its outrage by meting out the ultimate punishement. On the other hand, the way capital cases were tried in Illinois at the time was so rife with error, questionable police tactics, racial bias, and shoddy lawyering that thirteen death row inmates had been exonerated and a Republican governor had decided to institute a moratorium on all executions.
Despite what appeared to be a death penalty system ripe for reform, few people gave my bill much chance of passing".

As we are limited here to 400 words maximum for a comment, I must unfortunetely cut some parts. After this qotation, there is an explaination of the MAGNIFICENT WORK Barack did to convince all the involded people to find the best compromise possible.

"... over the course of several weeks, we convened sometimes daily meetings between prosecutors, public defenders, police organizations, and death penalty opponents, keeping our negociations as much as possible out of the press.
Instead of focusing on the serious disagreements around the table, I talked about the common value that I believed everyone shared, regardless of how each of us might feel about the death penalty :that is, the basic principle that no innocent person should end up on death row, and that no guilty of a capital offense should go free.
(...)
At the end of the process, the bill had the support of all the parties involved. It passed unanimously in the Illinois senate and was sign into law".

Link

(mistakes in taping are mine...)

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Kim, part of the Greatest lobbying force Washington has ever seen Jul 9th 2008 at 9:25 pm EDT

Thanks for finding that quote Helene -- I loaned my copy of the Audacity of Hope to a friend and am currently unable to do that!

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Hélène, with an H... like in Barack ! Jul 9th 2008 at 9:43 pm EDT

You Know, I'm French. And, for those one who didn't like Barack's recent speach, I DO speak English, and German also, and a litle bit of Italian, some words of Romania. And most of all, it's give me the great pleasure to blog with all of you(knowning you would take care of my mistakes).

Please, notice I don't speak Spanish...

I bought Barack's books in French, but as I saw here that some people could profit of it, I re-bought them in English to be able to make quotation here.

I have some ready made quotation on my blog, to answer quickly if needed.

Thanks,Kim, nice to be with you.

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Kim, part of the Greatest lobbying force Washington has ever seen Jul 9th 2008 at 9:49 pm EDT

Helene-- I learned French, but cannot speak it at all, but can still read it (with a French dictionary).

So that is what folks are discussing. I keep asking and no-one seems to want to answer me. Senator Obama gave a speech and mentioned Spanish? Good for him! We Americans NEED to learn more languages if we are going to compete on an equal playing field in the global economy.

Nice to be with you, too, Helene -- and thanks again!

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By T Jul 9th 2008 at 9:49 pm EDT

I don't care for the death penalty either, BUT I rather spend the money on schools, highways and people who want to live here and abide by the rules rather than BIG prisons to hold all the crooks...

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Kim, part of the Greatest lobbying force Washington has ever seen Jul 9th 2008 at 9:54 pm EDT

It costs more to execute a person than it does to imprison them for life. I know that sounds bizarre, but nevertheless, it is true.

Link

For example, one Kansas study found the median cost through execution was 1.26 million, while the median cost through death of life-time incarceration was $740,000.

The cost of the death penalty could be lowered by severely limiting the various rights to appeal (which have already been seriously reduced in recent years) -- but if we travel that road, we might well execute innocents, and I cannot advocate for such a position under any circumstances.

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Tekle from Ozone Park, NY Jul 9th 2008 at 9:11 pm EDT

I absolutely agree with you.As an ardent supporter of Barak Iam realy disappointed by FISA and his learn Spanish mantra.I will ask for refund.

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Ed in Austin Jul 9th 2008 at 9:29 pm EDT

As far as learning Spanish, what language would help anybody in their career more, after English. If you can speak Spanish and English you can write your own ticket in any number of careers. That's just common sense.

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Smuhamm Jul 9th 2008 at 9:38 pm EDT

If you are an ardent supporter why jumop ship at this time, more than just the FISA made you an ardent supporter, if that is true, STAND, do not fall by the wayside. Keep believing the same belief you had from the start, if that is true. You are who you've been waiting for, You have arrived, now STAND on it.

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Viva Obama so proud to have voted for HOPE and to have rejected the hype Jul 9th 2008 at 9:58 pm EDT

i have to say again, as logn as people post about it, that i am sick of people who claim they were for barack but then they were not and then they were again and now they are not. they are starting to sound like mccain to me. phony!

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By ♥ Tanya ♥ Jul 9th 2008 at 10:11 pm EDT

Yep. I agree. Pretty obvious.

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Paul from Magnolia, AR Jul 9th 2008 at 9:30 pm EDT

Yo no quiero entender espanol ... NOT!

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Hélène, with an H... like in Barack ! Jul 9th 2008 at 9:30 pm EDT

Everydody should speak almost one second linguage (and not only Spanish, but also Chinese, or Arabic -would have been helpfull in Iraq-, Russian, German, French, Japanese, etc...). Would help to built peace all over the world. When you can speak somebody else linguage, you may have a chance to have better discussion with him/her, and you are starting to understand each other better.

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Viva Obama so proud to have voted for HOPE and to have rejected the hype Jul 9th 2008 at 10:00 pm EDT

as long as it's a choice thing and not forced. i alreday speak two languages, the other no one in this country would care to know.

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Kim, part of the Greatest lobbying force Washington has ever seen Jul 9th 2008 at 9:31 pm EDT

What mantra? I haven't even heard this yet-- have you a link? I know this sounds snarky, but I really cannot help myself since I have been attempting to learn Spanish for about a year now -- are you opposed to learning a language in general, or just Spanish in particular?

Have you a link to this mantra I have not yet heard/read/seen?

If you mean that Senator Obama does not want English as the official language -- who does? I know some Republican-pander bears have discussed this one, but English is NOT our official language NOW. It is the language we use-- but it is not the official language. If it were, no official document could be printed in any language but English, and if you don't know what a headache that would cause, I don't see how you live in New York (where I think there are more languages spoken and official documents printed in those languages than even in my state of California).

As I told you elsewhere, English is NOT going anywhere. It is the language this Country speaks and it will be the language this Country speaks years from now -- how do I know this? English is the language of commerce all over this globe TODAY. English will be this Country's language tomorrow and a long time into the future.

But learning another language is not a bad thing. No matter what logical calculation I bring to this question, learning a second language is a very good thing. It helps your mind work more efficiently and helps open your mind as well.

Get past it and move on | Report to Admin

By Jeri, from Denver CO. Jul 9th 2008 at 9:24 pm EDT

Mashour from Williamsburg
What exactly about FISA bothers you so much? The telecoms who were never ever until hell froze over going get prosecuted anyway? Maybe you should ask yourself how Senator Clinton would have voted if she had not lost in the primary. That would be a good one to know.
Who really gives a crap about FISA. Did you read the entire bill? Or did you let the lemmings in the media decide for you? So your disappointed. Everyone that touts their support for Barack and now decides to lambast him---are making a very grave mistake. And while your at it why not explain what bothers you about the Jerusalem comment. Once again I don't think you are really paying attention to all that Barack Obama says. Perhaps he should talk to the press like they are fifth graders and can't decipher anything for themselves. Then he won't have to explain over and over and over. The media is out to portray Barack Obama the way they want to portray him because it's fun. They don't give a crap about policy and where this world is headed they just give a crap about controversy. So be disappointed...life won't always give you what you want. But now...if John McCain gets elected over this silly bull crap...then there's a travesty and then you will really be disappointed. I may not always agree with Barack Obama but I will always support him. It's to very important to me not to.

Re: Get past it and move on | Report to Admin

By Citizen Earth For Obama Jul 9th 2008 at 9:55 pm EDT

I will never vote for McCain, and I will probably vote for Obama, but I am not motivated by his pandering anymore, so no more calls, meetings, and donations(I maxed out anyway). The Jerusalem issue is his assuring the right of Israel to hold all jerusalem, including the 1967 seized eastern part, which is illegal according to UN resolutaion 224 and 338. The FISA bill gives Bush and his team the right to abuse the constituation without any liability, and the congressional monitoring is a joke. The companies that broke the law needed to pay restitutions, which is the only way for them to learn their lessons, not to mentions the danger to our national security by letting foreign companies like converse spying on us.

Re: Get past it and move on | Report to Admin

By Ron praying for President Barack Obama's success. Jul 9th 2008 at 10:09 pm EDT

I beg you and others that are turning against Obama because of his vote on the FISA bill to realize that he can't be viewed as being soft on terrorism. He did the best he could with the bill and will, I am sure, take actions to reverse the abuses of power assumed by the executive branch under Bush once he is president. I have listened to most of Obama's speeches, read his books and read every article I could find about him. He is really a very good person and will do what is best for the American people. Just try to keep that in mind when he takes a position that you may not agree with.

Re: Get past it and move on | Report to Admin

By Citizen Earth For Obama Jul 9th 2008 at 9:58 pm EDT

I will never vote for McCain, and I will probably vote for Obama, but I am not motivated by his pandering anymore, so no more calls, meetings, and donations(I maxed out anyway). The Jerusalem issue is his assuring the right of Israel to hold all jerusalem, including the 1967 seized eastern part, which is illegal according to UN resolutaion 224 and 338. The FISA bill gives Bush and his team the right to abuse the constituation without any liability, and the congressional monitoring is a joke. The companies that broke the law needed to pay restitutions, which is the only way for them to learn their lessons, not to mentions the danger to our national security by letting foreign companies like converse spying on us.

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Smuhamm Jul 9th 2008 at 9:27 pm EDT

Be careful where there is blame thrown, look in the mirror. Hillary voted for the war were Bush used the old FISA bill. Voted against it this time because it was not the Old BILL. Tell your family, Obama is not the mistake. Take heed.

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Nashfan for Obama in Phoenix, who has had "ENOUGH!" Jul 9th 2008 at 9:27 pm EDT

Clinton, as we all know, will vote or say anything that will bring her voters. Her vote against FISA proves nothing new to me. She has fooled you.

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Viva Obama so proud to have voted for HOPE and to have rejected the hype Jul 9th 2008 at 10:05 pm EDT

exactly. barack isn't about what polls well but what is good for the country. if he were really pandering then he would have blindly voted against it just to please the polls of the base which may be a good idea today but in the long run very bad for everyone. so please, WAKE UP!!

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Alice from Indian Trail, NC Jul 9th 2008 at 11:17 pm EDT

A remarkable lecture by neurologist and internet-sensation, Jill Bolte Taylor, recently brought popular attention to the divide between the left and right hemispheres of our brains. In simplified terms, our left brain is logic and detail oriented, while our right brain relies on feeling and big-picture thinking.

In relation to Obama, we on the political left don't seem to know which side of our brains to trust. We stand open-mouthed in front of our screens as Obama reminds us that "there is not a liberal American and a conservative America -- there is the United States of America," and our right-brains pulse with life. Brimming over with poetry and strength, Obama reminds us that the Iraq war "should have never been authorized, and should have never been waged," and our right brains get intoxicated with hope for a country we can be really proud of.

But then we open up our New York Times and read that Obama opposes a court decision banning the death penalty for child rape; that he supports another court decision striking down a gun-control law; that he supports a FISA compromise bill granting immunity to telecom companies who facilitated the Bush administration's streamrolling of civil liberties; that he supports certain limited federal funding of faith-based organizations.

And so we flip the switch on our right brains and our left brains cry foul. "What happened to our great hope for the future?" Feeling betrayed, Obama supporters organize protests on barackobama.com, and NYT op-ed specialist Bob Herbert accuses the candidate of "lurching right when it suits him, and... zigging with the kind of reckless abandon that's guaranteed to cause disillusion, if not whiplash."

In her lecture, Jill Bolte Taylor argues that both our left and right brains are crucially important in their different ways, and that a symbiotic unification of the left and right brain is possible.

We progressives need to get our left and right brains working together, and to do this means first recognizing the conflict, which amounts to a significant "left brain" misunderstanding about what Obama stands for.

Obama believes it is less important to defeat Republicans on every issue than to repair government so that good ideas can begin to flourish again.

Obama is no Kucinich, no Ralph Nader, no Michael Moore, and has never tried to be.

MESSAGE CONTINUED NEXT POSTING BELOW...

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Alice from Indian Trail, NC Jul 9th 2008 at 11:21 pm EDT

MESSAGE CONTINUED FROM ABOVE....

Through his flexibility on FISA and his nuanced positions on gun control and capital punishment, Obama is gaining credibility with the right. Instead of yelling at them, he is uncovering areas of genuine common ground. This is Obama's way forward, and it's the kind of politics he has been championing from the beginning -- the kind of politics, let's remember, that had us all deliriously chanting, "Yes, we can!"

And Obama believes it is the kind of politics that will finally lead to real movement on the root causes of so many of our challenges: jobs, health care, education, social security.

To put it more concretely, Obama's hard-line stance on the 2nd amendment might lead to a softening of his relationship to the right, and that new relationship is what will lead Republican lawmakers to begin to lay down their arms in certain cases. Ultimately, Obama's willingness to upset progressives on some of their pet issues may be what allows progress on the larger goals on which virtually all progressives can agree. Would you soften your stance on gun control, in exchange for more economic opportunity in inner cities, that in turn greatly reduces the incidence of gun violence? I certainly would.

The biggest question mark about Obama has been: is his candidacy about more than words? At this juncture in the campaign he is making those words come to life, and he is being hit for it from the left.

It's time to ask ourselves: are we "one America" or not? Are conservatives enemies to be vanquished, or are they fellow patriots worthy of being treated with respect? And worthy of being argued with as adults.

I encourage everyone who is captivated by Obama's speeches to make a "left brain shift" and trust the man a little bit more. If nothing else, it will make the campaign more fun to watch.

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Gabriel from Ridgeland, MS Jul 9th 2008 at 11:49 pm EDT

Alice Excellent post..i am so glad that there are people like you here capable of careful nuanced thought and who realize that to win this election and bring about the change we all yearn for this nation must be brought back to the middle of political ideology. Obama understands this and has been consistent in this regard..unfortunately many ultra lefties want him to be the ultra left version of what Karl Rove made George W Bush..he rather wants to be the democratic version of who Ronald Reagan was..a person whose basic big picture mentality enables him understand that to win the Big battles you must be willing and ready to give ground during minor skirmishes.

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Roberta Jul 9th 2008 at 11:44 pm EDT

Viva .... I challenge you to explain how it is good for the country for its citizens to lose their protection against warrantless search and seizure.

Barack Obama was a constitutional law professor. For him to support eradication of court oversight in any judicial investigation can't be anything but pandering.

And to those who advocate in blind faith "in what we can not see" and "trust that Barack is doing what's best" ... it's just gross. And scary.

Government is about reason, evidence, and accountability. Yes, you can use morality to guide policy. FISA is immoral.

I pretty much berated anyone in my family for even being on the FENCE about whether they would support Obama over Clinton. I turned a blind eye over my parent's anguish over the way their home state of Florida was treated. I supported his asendancy to become the party nominee, even with some serious misgivings about Obama's willingness to use that sham of a "punishment" to his advantage. (Didn't anybody ever notice that it was Florida's SUPERDELEGATES who violated the party rules, not the rank-and-file committed delegates?)

Reasonable people have tried to warn me. Why wasn't I listening?

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Trish - Working To Elect That One Jul 9th 2008 at 8:45 pm EDT

How about a profile?

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By fanofann Jul 9th 2008 at 8:47 pm EDT

NO PROFILE NEVER SEEN YOU BEFORE.

This is how Bush got elected.
4 years ago, oil was $38 dollars a barrel. 900 Americans had died in Iraq. The media kept calling John Kerry a flipflopper, and a lot of people did not think he was the perfect candidate. They kept finding better and better candidates, more and more ideal candidates.

And that is what has gotten us 50 years of Republicans and 12 years of Democrats.
A vote for anyone but Obama is a vote for Bush.

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Harry from Nahant, MA Jul 9th 2008 at 8:55 pm EDT

And Bush got reelected by mindless zealots who refused to see the colossal mistakes their chosen candidate had made in his first term. Sound familiar? Too many people on this blog demand uncritical support of Obama. I'm not giving uncritical support of anyone, ever.

As for profiles, who the heck cares? I'll judge people here by their words, not their juvenile profiles and their "facebook" profiles.

And I'll judge candidates by how their actions match their words; and right now Obama is dropping below my line of sight.

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Stan Z- Christian-President Obama Knows His Stuff Jul 9th 2008 at 9:05 pm EDT

The mindless ones are the ones who are pinning all their hopes on one issue as if the Constitiution will be eternally upheld and never again assaulted with this vote.

It's the FISA people who are throwing the War, Healthcare, and the Economy out the window. Millions of people have lost their homes because of this irresponsible administration. 50 million without healthcare and many millions who need,like myself. I'm sick for years now without healthcare because of cutbacks to Medicaid! This country cannot handle repeated irresponsible administration like this current Republican one.

Housing Bill | Report to Admin

By Kim, part of the Greatest lobbying force Washington has ever seen Jul 9th 2008 at 9:12 pm EDT

I'm sorry to hear about your illness. I hope you get the care you need soon.

I also hope everyone will take all of this energy and write their elected representatives to pass Senator Dodd's Housing Bill -- we needed that bill yesterday to stop the bleeding in the Housing sector.

It, too, is not a perfect bill -- but, folks, there is NO such thing as a perfect bill, or if there is, I have never read it.

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Harry from Nahant, MA Jul 9th 2008 at 9:13 pm EDT

If you lose the constitution, you lose everything. If you organize in opposition to a government policy regarding war, healthcare, or the economy, what is to stop them from gathering information about you and naming you an enemy of the United States?

That's why FISA has been a dealbreaker for so many people. Our right to speak and be free of government surveillance allows us to work for policy change. Without it, we become the old Soviet Union.

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Kim, part of the Greatest lobbying force Washington has ever seen Jul 9th 2008 at 9:33 pm EDT

Harry-- have you ever heard of the Alien & Sedition Act? Please google search that. Our Country survived THAT. We can survive this -- it is much less damaging.

And again, if this was so very critical, where were the Senators fillibustering on the Senate Floor aka Mr. Smith Goes to Washington (b/c you know they can still do that if they think it is important enough to stop a bill's passage, or change a bill).

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Hélène, with an H... like in Barack ! Jul 9th 2008 at 10:01 pm EDT

Kim, do you like this one :

The Audacity of Hope, published in 2006, "Values" chapter page 56 in the Tree Rivers edition :

"More often, though, finding the right balance between our competing values is difficult. Tensions arise not because we have steered a wrong course, but simply because we live in a complex and contradictory world. I firmly believe, for example, that since 9/11, we have played fast and loose with constitutionals principles in the fight against terrorism. But I acknowledge that even the wisest president and most prudent Congress would struggle to balance the critical demands of our collective security against the equally compelling need to uphold civil liberties".

Sole video found on Obama speaking on FISA compromise :
Link

The Audacity of Hope :
Link

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Kim, part of the Greatest lobbying force Washington has ever seen Jul 9th 2008 at 10:52 pm EDT

Yes, that is an excellent one. Thanks for finding it and for posting it.

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Harry from Nahant, MA Jul 9th 2008 at 10:14 pm EDT

Our country survived slavery too, but that doesn't mean we ought to give it another try.

I'm amazed at how quickly some who touted change have taken to rationalizing the same old same old. I guess the difference between Bush fanatics and Barack fanatics isn't as great as I thought. Different savior, same mentality.

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Kim, part of the Greatest lobbying force Washington has ever seen Jul 9th 2008 at 10:54 pm EDT

Again with the insults -- when you do that, most of us simply read "yada yada" or see red and respond in kind. If that is not your intent, perhaps you should try a more civil tone.

Did you google search the alien & sedition act?
Incidentally, the practical President who signed that Constitutional outrage (the alien & sedition act) also happens to be one of the Presidents I esteem greatly. Quite a paradox there.

And I certainly don't esteem President John Adams out of any sort of "savior" need. Please, that is blasphemy, really.

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Kim, part of the Greatest lobbying force Washington has ever seen Jul 9th 2008 at 10:58 pm EDT

And incidentally President John Adams vociferously opposed slavery and came close to disrupting (and potentially ending without a positive result) the Continental Congress over his desire to end slavery.
And yet, this same man signed the Alien & Sedition Act, perhaps the worst abuse of the First Amendment in our History..... again, there is that paradox.

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Roberta Jul 9th 2008 at 11:54 pm EDT

we didn't survive the Alien & Sedition act. We remained a third-rate world power, splintered over domestic issues, and ended up in civil war less than 100 years after becoming a nation -- instead of being able to celebrate the crowning achievement of the constituion and rally people around it, we demonstated from the outset that it could be manipulated for cynical gain.

By the way, do those of you who don't think FISA has serious consequences, or that it somehow balances some other need, realize that the justice department could ALREADY obtain any wire tap it needed -- there is NO new ground gained in our war on terror; there is the only the loss of fundamental protections.

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By elrodney Jul 10th 2008 at 12:48 am EDT

This FISA bill just does not bother me. This is the US Government we are talking about. They have known everything about all of us our whole lives, period.

They have known where you shop, what you shop for, whether it is in a mall or on the street. We all have SS#'s and little magnetic strips on our license and in our Twenty-dollar bills. What do you think those are for? RFID tags on almost everything anyway and you think they haven't been spying on you until now.

Feel free to think of your own examples in your mind.

I swear, some of these people on this blog just don't know how to play politics, but I see those gears starting to turn. At least they are trying.

Sen. Obama, you are a political genius.

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Viva Obama so proud to have voted for HOPE and to have rejected the hype Jul 9th 2008 at 10:09 pm EDT

wow. my understanding is the bill adds a lot more protection than the old bill. i still don't know why people are fretting like it's worse than it was before. it's not!

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Kim, part of the Greatest lobbying force Washington has ever seen Jul 9th 2008 at 10:56 pm EDT

It does and it does not include immunity from criminal prosecution like the last one did.

It is a compromise bill. Our President is simply saying he got everything he wanted to further stir the pot-- remember Scott McClellan told us this White House is run in "permanent campaign" mode! This is just part of that "permanent campaign."

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Roberta Jul 9th 2008 at 11:55 pm EDT

FISA was set to expire in August; we wouldn't have either travesty on our hands, old or new, if it had been allowed to sunset.

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Nashfan for Obama in Phoenix, who has had "ENOUGH!" Jul 9th 2008 at 9:09 pm EDT

We are not uncritical of Obama, but the time for it is not right now. Obama is open to different opinions. We disagree without being disagreeable- something that you and many others seem to be incapable of doing. If you really dislike Obama so much, you should vote for McCain. Just don't blame Obama when you become unhappy with McCain.

Go Obama! Win the election in November!

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Viva Obama so proud to have voted for HOPE and to have rejected the hype Jul 9th 2008 at 10:21 pm EDT

the biggest problem with the people who don;t seem satisfied no matter what barcak does is they have mixed expectations of barack. sometimes over sometimes under. most of the time not a good mix. they expect perfection form the man and then they tear him down. he is not perfect, neither are we.

people who back barack on this fisa decision did not do it blindly. they understand the changes made to this bill and how not so disastrous it is. many are pissed because they want bush punished. what that anger is going to get us is more of bush really and getting away scott free for sure. the key is that we begin to move in the right direction. whether this bill got voted or not, if barack does not get in our cries will be worse than now. why can't people see what is infront and are so bent on holding on to foolishness that will be the downfall of us. yes i said foolishness because this bill as many are claiming is not any worse than the old bill, in fact it is a step in the right direction from the old bill. may be not a giant step, still a step in the right direction.

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By vassar13 Jul 10th 2008 at 1:36 am EDT

Feingold seems to have faith that after the election at some point in time ...there is a good possibility that a new bill can be passed correcting this one. Let us have hope. It seems to me that so many of you think it was in Obama power to single handedly defeat this bill himself. It was not possible...

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Kim, part of the Greatest lobbying force Washington has ever seen Jul 9th 2008 at 9:10 pm EDT

I don't demand anything of anyone. I also do not give uncritical anything to anyone.

I am also no juvenile. My goodness, but being called a kid sounds familiar to me -- where in the heck did I hear that before?

I judge a candidate by their judgment and that includes their ability to be flexible. Our current President's largest problem, in my own humble opinion, is his stubborn refusal to change positions no matter what the situation is.

I measure a poster's words by how they discuss an issue and you sir are engaging in a great deal of ad hominem. I was taught that ad hominem is the last desperate attempt of a debater who has lost the argument. If you want me to take your words seriously, please refrain from personal insults.

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Harry from Nahant, MA Jul 9th 2008 at 9:19 pm EDT

Oh, I'm sorry. Maybe you'd prefer I spend my time congratulating the first poster on a thread, or begging donations from fellow supporters? Maybe you'd like me to parrot all the silly cheers that have developed on this site? Good gawd! This guy promised a filibuster and not only did he fail to deliver on that promise, but he actually voted to end a filibuster attempt by his fellow Dem's.

But you're worried about my tone? Take the blinders off and give Obama hell. He's pulled a political bait and switch, and all people care about here is who made a profile and who is being negative. I feel like I'm on the Stepford blog.

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Kim, part of the Greatest lobbying force Washington has ever seen Jul 9th 2008 at 9:39 pm EDT

Stepford? My ad hominem meter is going off loud and clear (though that was a creative insult at least) I'm not worried about you at all. I simply informed you that anyone who engages in ad hominem is not contributing to any discussion-- at least not with me.

Do you feel better now that you have insulted me?
I hope you do, because you have not engaged me in any sort of meaningful dialogue. If you don't feel better, in a way, your entire reply to me was an utter waste of time (at least of mine). I am not interested in whether a comment is glowing, critical or neutral. I am interested in whether it engages my mind. I don't know if you are aware of this, but you are doing very little but insult me (and others). Insults do not engage my mind. Indeed, insults tend to turn me away from everything offered by the insulter. Food for thought?

By the way, have you a link to Senator Obama's promise to fillibuster THIS bill? Because I have asked repeatedly for such a link, and it has never been provided.

Senator Obama did fillibuster the last one (which was different than this one) and he did promise that.

By the way, I have never criticized anyone for a lack of profile -- however, I do believe people who choose to go without a profile should understand that this lack of any i.d. will provoke suspicion from many.

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Viva Obama so proud to have voted for HOPE and to have rejected the hype Jul 9th 2008 at 10:26 pm EDT

thank you kim. i was about to ask about the proof to obama promisisng a filibuster to this particular bill. people seem to throw so mant claims out there it's just unbelievable.

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Kim, part of the Greatest lobbying force Washington has ever seen Jul 9th 2008 at 10:35 pm EDT

Apparently, Senator Obama promised to fillibuster any bill with immunity in 2007 AND DID. (Somebody finally gave me a link below to an article from Fall 2007).

The general language of that statement is on what folks are hanging their hats. Apparently, many do want to continue the intransigent sort of Presidency that we currently have, or are not thinking it through entirely.

Again, we need a new President -- and we need Senator Obama, not more of the same nonsense with Senator McCain.

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Harry from Nahant, MA Jul 9th 2008 at 10:42 pm EDT

Oh, I see. So his promises expire after a year? Gee, his word has a shorter shelf life than a can of beans.

I wish I'd known that before I voted for him in the primary. But don't worry, I won't make that mistake again.

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Kim, part of the Greatest lobbying force Washington has ever seen Jul 9th 2008 at 11:08 pm EDT

Apparently, you missed that part about inflexibility.

There are so many reasons why I don't like this bill-- and so many reasons why there was little other choice. But, the reasons for this a very nuanced and cannot be expressed in short quips, or even short paragraphs.

We need a new President. We need a new Justice Department. When we have those -- if that President is Senator Obama -- this bill's shelf life will be expired. Senator Feingold understands this truism-- and I wish he were here to discuss this with you, but since he is not, I must make the attempt.

Our President claims to have stopped all data-mining (even of Al Quaeda) because he didn't get his way on the last bill (and he also refused a continuation of the status quo pending a resolution). This is how our inflexible President generally behaves -- but if he is telling the truth, what does that mean?

I do not speak here about telecom companies, I don't speak here about American citizens-- I speak here about basic intelligence gathering of known terrorists. Our President claims he stopped that.

Now, what do you do? This was a no-win situation. Personally, I am pleased that Senator Obama had the guts not to duck the issue and cast a vote. I am pleased he tried to get immunity removed, but in the end, made the decision that even if our President is a petulant, stubborn and even (in this case) dangerous man, we need that intelligence -- and we need our Courts to have some oversight.

Senator Feingold took a different position and I respect him for that. I respect Senator Clinton for other reasons, but not this vote -- Senator Clinton did NOT vote for the much worse bill (that included immunity from criminal prosecution provisions) the last go- round.

Link

Also, when you know your vote will not stop the bill's passage, that certainly would take the pressure off of your mind now, wouldn't it?

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Harry from Nahant, MA Jul 9th 2008 at 11:46 pm EDT

So breaking your promise to support a filibuster is now defined as flexibility. Remind me never to sign a contract with you or the Senator. Apparently it's only valid until you do some flexing.

Yes, we need a new president. But not one who will get flexible on his promise to support and defend the constitution. Obama has a head start on breaking that one, eh?

You say: "Also, when you know your vote will not stop the bill's passage, that certainly would take the pressure off of your mind now, wouldn't it?"

Only if you are a sheep. Good leaders don't vote for bad bills just because the rest of the flock is headed that way.

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Roberta Jul 10th 2008 at 12:00 am EDT

Errr ... Kim? Sen. Feingold spoke against this bill on the Senate floor before his voting "no".

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Roberta Jul 10th 2008 at 12:01 am EDT

Errr ... Kim? Sen. Feingold spoke against this bill on the Senate floor before his voting "no".

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Harry from Nahant, MA Jul 9th 2008 at 10:32 pm EDT

The Obama campaign has just sent over the following statement from spokesman Bill Burton:

"To be clear: Barack will support a filibuster of any bill that includes retroactive immunity for telecommunications companies."

and here's your link:
Link

Now, would you like to rethink things?

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Kim, part of the Greatest lobbying force Washington has ever seen Jul 9th 2008 at 11:10 pm EDT

Nope. I wanted the link. I never said I needed the candidate I preferred to always walk in lock-step with himself -- we already have a President who does that, and one is quite enough for me.

Also, your link is to a promise from 2007 concerning a prior bill which was defeated by fillibuster for which Senator Obama voted (as he promised he would do).

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Harry from Nahant, MA Jul 9th 2008 at 11:48 pm EDT

So keeping a campaign promise is "walking in lock-step with yourself". Do you realize how badly you are contorting to wrap your logic around this treachery? You make the campaign spinners like motionless by comparison

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Couldn't be happier with my new President! Jul 9th 2008 at 8:51 pm EDT

Unknown,

You should really do your homework. Really, it's not that much effort to get oneself informed.

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Eric Jul 9th 2008 at 8:52 pm EDT

Maybe you should support Barr?

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By donna from lakewood Jul 9th 2008 at 9:00 pm EDT

unknown user with no profile, obviously you haven't read the bill and do not even remotely
know why we need it. i suspect your motives are disruptive and that you never supported obama anyway. i will pray for you.

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Kim, part of the Greatest lobbying force Washington has ever seen Jul 9th 2008 at 9:04 pm EDT

Wow! Well, you and I couldn't disagree more and I am not a die-hard Democrat, but I am a die-hard for our Constitution, our Checks & Balances and the way our Country's Government is supposed to work (according to our Constitution).

Personally, the War in Iraq bothers me more than this bill -- and that one is still on-going now for over 5 long years. Senator Obama has not taken the low road at any point during this election cycle and the politically expedient thing to do would have been to vote "no" -- or hadn't you thought of that? A "no" vote on this particular bill would not have made one whit of difference.

Now had a Senator actually stood on the Senate Floor and made a fillibuster I could find a real reason to respect that . . . . but a "no" vote (and Senator McCain didn't even vote) when you know it means nothing? Nope, cannot get to excited about that one, no matter who cast that vote......

Senator Feingold who worked like anything to try and stop this -- he gets my respect. But, he, too, did not take to the Senate Floor. I guess none of those 28 Senators thought this bill was that distressing.....

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Harry from Nahant, MA Jul 9th 2008 at 9:37 pm EDT

Not true, Kim.

A filibuster was attempted but failed when the Repubicans, the Blue Dogs, and OBAMA all voted for cloture.

See, that's when he voted to oppose the thing that he had promised to do himself.

Bait and switch. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Kim, part of the Greatest lobbying force Washington has ever seen Jul 9th 2008 at 9:47 pm EDT

Harry-- a cloture vote is unnecessary.

ANY Senator can take the Senate Floor and start talking and they can keep talk until they cannot keep on going. This is true today just as it was yesterday.

The cloture vote simply ends the ability of less than 60 Senators to fillibuster WITHOUT taking to the Senate Floor.

Still waiting for that link -- remember it needs to be a link to Senator Obama's promise to fillibuster this bill, not the truly terrible one from 5 months ago.

(By the way, I am not particular fond of this bill-- but the Court's will likely strip out the part that limits their oversight (Court's are famous for doing that) and this bill's life is exactly as long as this President's remaining term -- unless we are all prepared to drown in the boat built by our current President and Senator McCain and (shiver) Senator McCain is our next President.

You know, back in 2000, a McCain Presidency did not bother me. But, today, especially after Senator McCain's flip-flop on torture and his apparent inability to prevent himself from reaching as far-right as he can politically no matter what the issue, I can no longer find the Senator McCain of 2000 in the Senator John Sidney McCain III of 2008.

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Kim, part of the Greatest lobbying force Washington has ever seen Jul 9th 2008 at 9:57 pm EDT

I typed the number wrong -- 60 Senators can end a "floorless" fillibuster. Less than 60 Senators cannot do so.

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Harry from Nahant, MA Jul 9th 2008 at 10:17 pm EDT

For those who don't click links:

October 24, 2007 Josh Marshall's TPM -

The Obama campaign has just sent over the following statement from spokesman Bill Burton:

"To be clear: Barack will support a filibuster of any bill that includes retroactive immunity for telecommunications companies."

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Harry from Nahant, MA Jul 9th 2008 at 10:11 pm EDT

Here's your link: Link

Now will you take off your rose-colored glasses and examine the candidate in the clear light of day?

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Kim, part of the Greatest lobbying force Washington has ever seen Jul 9th 2008 at 10:32 pm EDT

I do examine the candidate I prefer in the clear light of day-- otherwise, I would be typing (and reading in the dark). I do wear glasses (usually) or contacts, but my lenses have no tint.

That story is from 2007. Senator Obama did fillibuster that bill. We are now in July of 2008.

I could take that to mean that Senator Obama had permanently hamstrung himself -- but goodness knows after the intransigency of our current President, I don't want Senator Obama to do that!

Also, I have never been that concerned about immunity, myself. I am concerned about data-mining, but we need a new President (with the bully pulpit) to really have that debate.

What we need--
1) a New President
2) a New Justice Department (that is actually independent of the White House)
3) More Democratic Senators
4) every Republican Congress person who walked out -- which is every single one -- rather than stand up for the House's right to oversee the Presidency SENT HOME.

If we do those things, there will be no more votes like today's. Please think about that and ask yourself if I am not correct.

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Harry from Nahant, MA Jul 9th 2008 at 10:40 pm EDT

Nice try. Read the quote again, Kim.
He said "any bill that includes retroactive immunity for telecommunications companies". Get that? Any bill. Well, this bill has it, and he not only failed to support a filibuster, he actually voted to oppose a filibuster.

You can wiggle all you like, but those are the words of the Obama campaign.

You aren't concerned about immunity, but you are concerned about data mining? WTH? What do you think the immunity is for? Warrentless wiretapping IS data mining. So is sifting emails and internet traffic. That's what the FISA stink is all about.

Maybe I should let this one go. I'm not sure you're up to speed on this issue. Your statements seem self-contradictory.

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Viva Obama so proud to have voted for HOPE and to have rejected the hype Jul 9th 2008 at 9:53 pm EDT

fyi, hillary and barack are on the same page with this. so yes, take roll call and barack will still be on top.

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By C from Orlando, FL Jul 9th 2008 at 10:07 pm EDT

The FISA vote has made me very disappointed in Obama. That bill will allow Bush to walk away from his crimes against this nation free and clear. This is a sad day and I can't believe Obama helped with that after saying he wouldn't. Obama is still a better choice than McCain (I guess) but trusting the words coming out of his mouth just got a little harder.

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Alice from Indian Trail, NC Jul 9th 2008 at 11:04 pm EDT

WE MUST CONTINUE TO SUPPORT BARACK OBAMA

I've been noticing a defensive note creeping into a lot of response to that "Obama moving to the center" criticism. My friend, Daniel Cardozo, takes a more positive view. Here's what he has to say:
A remarkable lecture by neurologist and internet-sensation, Jill Bolte Taylor, recently brought popular attention to the divide between the left and right hemispheres of our brains. In simplified terms, our left brain is logic and detail oriented, while our right brain relies on feeling and big-picture thinking.

In relation to Obama, we on the political left don't seem to know which side of our brains to trust. We stand open-mouthed in front of our screens as Obama reminds us that "there is not a liberal American and a conservative America -- there is the United States of America," and our right-brains pulse with life. Brimming over with poetry and strength, Obama reminds us that the Iraq war "should have never been authorized, and should have never been waged," and our right brains get intoxicated with hope for a country we can be really proud of.

But then we open up our New York Times and read that Obama opposes a court decision banning the death penalty for child rape; that he supports another court decision striking down a gun-control law; that he supports a FISA compromise bill granting immunity to telecom companies who facilitated the Bush administration's streamrolling of civil liberties; that he supports certain limited federal funding of faith-based organizations.

And so we flip the switch on our right brains and our left brains cry foul. "What happened to our great hope for the future?" Feeling betrayed, Obama supporters organize protests on barackobama.com, and NYT op-ed specialist Bob Herbert accuses the candidate of "lurching right when it suits him, and... zigging with the kind of reckless abandon that's guaranteed to cause disillusion, if not whiplash."

In her lecture, Jill Bolte Taylor argues that both our left and right brains are crucially important in their different ways, and that a symbiotic unification of the left and right brain is possible.

We progressives need to get our left and right brains working together, and to do this means first recognizing the conflict, which amounts to a significant "left brain" misunderstanding about what Obama stands for.

Obama believes it is less important to defeat Republicans on every issue than to

Re: FISA | Report to Admin

By Sandra in PA, blogging here since day one and volunteering for BO since he announced his candidacy Feb. 10, '07 Jul 10th 2008 at 7:31 am EDT

Yes, she voted yesterday, when it was politically expedient, when it wasn't going to cost her votes.

I wonder where your and Mrs. Clinton's moral outrage, re: stripping of our civil liberties, was back in Feb., on the eve of the VA, Maryland and D.C. primaries, when she failed to even bother to show up for the vote to strip immunity from the telecoms; didn't bother to show up to support her fellow Dems in that quest, alongside BARACK, who did vote to strip immunity! She and McCain were both no shows! And why?

Unfortunately, though just a few minutes drive from D.C., that day she chose to play it safe as the amendment went down in defeat, choosing instead to remain in Northern VA campaigning. Why? Because she feared the backlash from appearing too liberal, not hawkish enough; appearing not tough on terrorism, not the "ready on day one" COMMANDER IN CHIEF, as advertised; alienating her so called blue collar base and thus, losing votes.

It's easy to be courageous, indeed sanctimonious, when you have nothing to lose. As with her Iraq vote, this vote was all about political expediency and "appearances."

Re: Maybe? | Report to Admin

By Kim, part of the Greatest lobbying force Washington has ever seen Jul 9th 2008 at 9:01 pm EDT

I could have given it to you, had I arrived earlier!
Sorry! It is a long one-- happy slogging!

Re: Maybe? | Report to Admin

By Gary Jul 9th 2008 at 9:02 pm EDT

Adrianne, the text of the bill can be found here: Link

Early in this election cycle I worked for Ron Paul and donated to his campaign. In previous presidential elections I have never voted for a democrat. I thought this year would be a first but Obama's vote today for the FISA bill and granting immunity to those who broke the law will prevent me from doing so. You only need immunity if you are a criminal. Obama is not the man I thought he was.

Re: Maybe? | Report to Admin

By Stan Z- Christian-President Obama Knows His Stuff Jul 9th 2008 at 9:12 pm EDT

Anyone who is so irresponsible to throw every other important issue away over one issue, doesn't deserve to vote.

The FISA people are starting to sound like those on the radical right. Just find one issue like abortion( which I agree with the right on to a great extent) and forget about the many millions more who die due to poverty, disease and war.

Re: Maybe? | Report to Admin

By Smuhamm Jul 9th 2008 at 9:51 pm EDT

Gary keep thinking he is more the MAN than any of the other candidates, you must find the trust in your self and lets move forward there is going to be a better day, Ron Paul is not MAN for these times, it was not meant to be. Go with your heart and conscious, Obama knows what he is doing, but of course you have to believe, you know our Creators gives us immunity every day hummmm Thank you creator for that.

Re: Maybe? | Report to Admin

By Drando MI Jul 9th 2008 at 9:15 pm EDT

Gary, be sure you know of what you speak. The only immunity granted was civil immunity. This bill does not excuse criminal behavior.

Re: Maybe? | Report to Admin

By Kim, part of the Greatest lobbying force Washington has ever seen Jul 9th 2008 at 9:18 pm EDT

You typed that you only need immunity if you are a criminal and that is not accurate.

This is NOT criminal immunity; this IS civil immunity and there is a very significant difference between the two. There is absolutely NOTHING in this bill which protects anyone from criminal prosecution.

Civil immunity exists against our government right now. You cannot sue the government (and haven't been able to do so for the length and breadth of this Country's existence) for any decision that is considered "executive." You can sue the government (usually) for a "ministeral" action. In practice, this means if you suffer because someone makes a "decision" you cannot sue, but if you suffer because someone makes a "typographical error" you can. Indeed, you cannot sue the government AT ALL unless there is a specific statute allowing you to do so -- and that is some REAL BIG CIVIL IMMUNITY.

Civil immunity exists throughout our laws and throughout English Common Law. It is NOT dependent on criminal action -- it is dependent upon a governmental decision that the particular action should be protected from civil suit (i.e. the award of damages to make a person whole from an injury caused by the actions of the defendant).

Re: Maybe? | Report to Admin

By GREG KLINE Jul 9th 2008 at 10:48 pm EDT

You know, as Fisa goes, I see two plans. I mean, the vote wasn't anywhere near close, so Barack could afford to vote any way he wanted. So;

1) Vote to approve, and you endear voters from the right, who see proof that you want to represent everyone.

2) Vote against approval, and you rally your loyal base, by doing what's just.

Well, I think the plan is, progressives have no real choice but to vote Barack, but conservatives DO have a choice. So, Barack is being smart. I trust that Barack knows when to stop sacrificing the left in order to attract the right.

One thing I know, Bush belongs either in prison for war crimes, or hung for treason. The idea that he could simply walk from his unconstitutional abominations, is a vile and virulent disease to the american soul.

Down with disease!

To better days!

Re: Maybe? | Report to Admin

By Citizen Earth For Obama Jul 9th 2008 at 8:40 pm EDT

I am so disappointed at the castrated Democrats who voted for this disastrous bill, including Senator Obama. I have been an avid suppoter of him because of his standing on issues, regardless of their politics. I donated the maximum, made calls on his behalf and blogged forever for him attacking Senator Clinton and her supporters for their standings, but unfortunately he disppointed me on multiple issues, including the Jerusalem issue, the death penalty, but the final straw was the FISA vote. and to make the matter more painful, Senator Clinton, who I opposed previously, happen to vote against this bill. What a travesty.

Re: Maybe? | Report to Admin

By fanofann Jul 9th 2008 at 8:53 pm EDT

Did you hear Terry McAuliffe on Hardball? No WAY is he going there.

This planet is in peril. Please get a grip. Obama is the very best choice for president. It is either Obama or Mccain. McCain is reckless, out of touch, dangerous. Obama has the best experience. He is a constitutional scholar. He has always exceeded expectations. It will be one or the other.

All it takes for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing.

Re: Maybe? | Report to Admin

By Couldn't be happier with my new President! Jul 9th 2008 at 8:54 pm EDT

Mashour from Williamsburg, VA

Please get yourself informed before you post. You obviously haven't explored all of the information on this site alone, let alone other sources, that Obama has put out there on the record. So before you post your negative stance, at least know what he has actually said and where he truly stands on these important issues. And always remember to look at the full picture, not isolated soundbites from the media. They don't know what they're talking about most of the time.

Re: Maybe? | Report to Admin

By Kristen in Maine Jul 9th 2008 at 9:21 pm EDT

Hey guys - I heard yesterday that Rush Limbaugh is telling his listeners to log onto this site all at the same time and bombard it with negative posts while posing as "supporters". I have no problem with questioning our leaders- it is our duty as Americans, but if anyone thinks they are going to find a candidate with whom they agree on EVERYTHING they are extremely naive! How many of us agree with our spouses on everything? Is this one issue worth risking sending to McCain to the White House INSURING that the Constitution will be further compromised and executive power will get further out of control?

Please keep in mind that most of these "doubters" are trolls and we should donate accordingly! I will donate $10 to someone who provides me a link and if anyone is so inclined please click my name and donate to my fundraiser!!!

Re: Maybe? | Report to Admin

By Gary Jul 9th 2008 at 11:01 pm EDT

Contrary to the ruling of the US Supreme Court I still believe every citizen has the right to vote. If one issue is used to determine who they choose to vote for that should be their business. Heaven knows abortion, guns, gays and the Iraq war will be single determining issues for many voters.

Retaining a citizen’s privacy is to me and should be paramount to every individual. Once the erosion starts it will likely continue.

I am well aware of the immunity provisions granted and what the Bush administration pushed for and won in this legislation. The fact the Senator Obama reversed his position on this issue weighed as heavy on my decision to withhold my $2,300 and vote from his campaign as much as his direct vote in support of the bill.

By the way I wonder how many people posting opinions here have put there money where their mouth is by contributing to any of the candidates.

Re: Maybe? | Report to Admin

By William from Stamford, CT Jul 9th 2008 at 8:25 pm EDT

Barack Obama Says Kids Won't Be Doing Any More Interviews: Link

Obama, Clinton Fly to NY With Veep Vetter: Link

John McCain Jokes About Iran Cigarette Sales: Link

Judicial Watch Files Complaint Over Obama’s Mortgage: Link

Condoleezza Rice: Russia Should Back Off Regional Threats: Link

Barack Obama to Visit Germany July 24 and Other Countries: Link

Anti-Lieberman Group to Deliver 43,000 Signatures: Link

Obama: Iranian Missile Tests Call for More Talks: Link

Barack Obama Already Has a Plan for the White House Lincoln Bedroom: Link

Obama Says McCain Lacked Courage to Reform Immigration: Link

============================== =================

Presidential Polls: Link

Cast Your Vote: Link

Video: Most Viewed Election Video: Link

Cartoon Picks of the Day: Link

Quote of the Day: Link

Political Humor: Link

============================== =================

Disappointed | Report to Admin

By Tekle from Ozone Park, NY Jul 9th 2008 at 9:07 pm EDT

As an ardent supporter of Barak Obama,Iam realy disappointed by his support of the FISA
and dissapointed when he suggested Americans must learn Spanish when asked whether or not English should be the official langauge.I hope he knows what he is talking about.This is the US not Mexico.Realy disappointed and I hope he changes his mind

English is NOT the official language now. | Report to Admin

By Kim, part of the Greatest lobbying force Washington has ever seen Jul 9th 2008 at 9:21 pm EDT

If we make English the official language we will cause havoc in Court Houses across this land.

If English is the official language (which it isn't now), "official" translators won't be available for foreign-language witnesses. So, if a witness cannot speak English, that witness's testimony may never be heard.

If English is the official language (which it isn't now), ballots will not be printed in any language BUT English which will mean Americans who don't speak English well will have difficulty voting.

I can go on for quite awhile, but I will leave it there.

English is our language, but it wouldn't hurt any of us to speak a second tongue -- and English isn't going anywhere in this Country. English is becoming the standard language of commerce across the globe. English is here to stay -- don't worry and don't let the fear-mongers get to you.

Re: Disappointed | Report to Admin

By Benjamin Vos, Nashville Jul 9th 2008 at 9:34 pm EDT

Um, yeah, this is the U.S. and there's no official language here.

No hay una lengua oficial en los Estados Unidos. Toda la gente bienveindos!

Re: Disappointed | Report to Admin

By Paul from Magnolia, AR Jul 9th 2008 at 9:34 pm EDT

Yeh, who needs the rest of the world anyway? Oh, wait, that's right, we are 5% of the world's population, and use 40% of the world resources, so WE need the rest of the world!

Obama is COMPLETELY CORRECT about the need for Americans to learn foreign languages, and FINALLY join the world community.

Re: Disappointed | Report to Admin

By Hélène, with an H... like in Barack ! Jul 9th 2008 at 10:09 pm EDT

Ah oui alors, il a raison !

Re: Disappointed | Report to Admin

By Ed in Austin Jul 9th 2008 at 9:38 pm EDT

As far as learning Spanish, what language would help anybody in their career more, after English. If you can speak Spanish and English you can write your own ticket in any number of careers. That's just common sense.

Re: Disappointed | Report to Admin

By Hélène, with an H... like in Barack ! Jul 9th 2008 at 9:53 pm EDT

When in Paris I meet some American tourist wanting to ask me his way and not even trying to say bonjour and merci in French, I think that he/her is not a good ambassador of his country.

But all American are not like this (I had many times the proof on this web site).

To try to speak somebody else linguage is not a mark of weackness. It's the contrary.

Re: Disappointed | Report to Admin

By april Jul 9th 2008 at 10:31 pm EDT

this has nothing to do with obama's statement today about multilingualism which i strongly agree with:

when i went to paris i felt as though some (not all) parisians were trying to FORCE me to speak french, and if i didn't, they were quite rude and borderline racist (i'm black). i felt much more comfortable in the ethnic enclaves (arab, african, vietnamese) than in some of the main touristy places in the city for that very reason. and the odd thing about it was that many people there SPEAK english, so why get so hot and bothered at those who don't speak french? especially people who are simply VISITING and not trying to live there permanently??? as i said, not ALL were like that (some folks were very friendly and patient with us), but there were at least a few who were not very good ambassadors of france in my opinion--including a pair of very rude police officers who refused to assist us when we were lost and asked directions.

Re: Maybe? | Report to Admin

By Dwight "Hussein" Hershey, San Diego, CA Jul 9th 2008 at 7:57 pm EDT

NICE!

Re: Maybe? | Report to Admin

By cindy from tucson Jul 9th 2008 at 7:57 pm EDT

congrats? donate? Link

Re: Maybe? | Report to Admin

By Lynne From Bellwether MO Jul 9th 2008 at 8:00 pm EDT

Okay, Cindy. I'll hit you!

Re: Maybe? | Report to Admin

By cindy from tucson Jul 9th 2008 at 8:01 pm EDT

Yeah! Thank YOU!

Re: Maybe? | Report to Admin

By cindy from tucson Jul 9th 2008 at 8:01 pm EDT

oh, come on...please donate, it's a very sad fundraising page!

Donate? | Report to Admin

By HSLK: Our Journey Has Just Begun Jul 9th 2008 at 7:57 pm EDT

Congratulations Lynn
Donate PLEASE!Link

Re: Maybe? | Report to Admin

By Meri Who Loves Writing Haiku About Barack Jul 9th 2008 at 7:58 pm EDT

congrats ! donate?

Link

Re: Maybe? | Report to Admin

By joe ruwe Jul 9th 2008 at 7:58 pm EDT

I think so !!!!!!! Nice work!

Link

Re: Maybe? | Report to Admin

By joe ruwe Jul 9th 2008 at 8:00 pm EDT

we're like vultures on a carcass.

Re: Maybe? | Report to Admin

By Lynne From Bellwether MO Jul 9th 2008 at 8:04 pm EDT

LOL!!

Re: Maybe? | Report to Admin

By Meri Who Loves Writing Haiku About Barack Jul 9th 2008 at 8:05 pm EDT

...or as they say in the South, "like white on rice"! :)

Re: Maybe? | Report to Admin

By Giddy Rabbit who is full of new energy! Jul 9th 2008 at 8:04 pm EDT

Congrats!

Re: Maybe? | Report to Admin

By Debbie for Obama Jul 9th 2008 at 8:06 pm EDT

Yeah Lynne is first!

Re: Maybe? | Report to Admin

By coba11 Jul 9th 2008 at 9:33 pm EDT

why no clinton?

Link

First? | Report to Admin

By HSLK: Our Journey Has Just Begun Jul 9th 2008 at 7:57 pm EDT

1

Re: First? | Report to Admin

By Eric Jul 9th 2008 at 8:02 pm EDT

Donate? Link

Re: First? | Report to Admin

By Giddy Rabbit who is full of new energy! Jul 9th 2008 at 8:17 pm EDT

Good try!
I've never been first and i'm a rabbiit!

LOL

1 | Report to Admin

By joe ruwe Jul 9th 2008 at 7:58 pm EDT

You can't fight terror with terror.

3 | Report to Admin

By joe ruwe Jul 9th 2008 at 7:59 pm EDT

3. not bad. I dedicate this song to the neocons out there. watch out for karma, baby!

Link

Obama for President! | Report to Admin

By Mo Justice, Mo Peace Jul 9th 2008 at 7:58 pm EDT

Back up off the Senator. He at least stood up and voted unlike McCain

Re: Obama for President! | Report to Admin

By Kim D, I survived the Tx Dem Convention, Jul 9th 2008 at 7:59 pm EDT

Say that again and say it loud!

Re: Obama for President! | Report to Admin

By Paul J. Los Angeles Jul 9th 2008 at 8:50 pm EDT

Back up off the Senator. He at least stood up and voted unlike McCain

Re: Obama for President! | Report to Admin

By Benjamin Vos, Nashville Jul 9th 2008 at 9:20 pm EDT

John McCain has gone from war hero in Vietnam to "Missing in Action" in the Senate.

Re: Obama for President! | Report to Admin

By Paul from Magnolia, AR Jul 9th 2008 at 9:38 pm EDT

McCain: Leadership you can count on to not show up (unless its a war).

Re: Obama for President! | Report to Admin

By Francis Hussein Jul 9th 2008 at 8:00 pm EDT

Haha! So true! He didnt have the backbone to vote.

Roll Call | Report to Admin

By Cool Chick for Obama-Austin,TX Jul 9th 2008 at 8:02 pm EDT

Austin,TX in the house!
Obama '08 & '12

Re: Roll Call | Report to Admin

By Kim D, I survived the Tx Dem Convention, Jul 9th 2008 at 8:07 pm EDT

Hey Austin, I attended the convention! Austin is nice, I may have to come back and just try to live thru the bomb threats and fires and hotel evacutions, other than that it was nice. I will go anywhere BO needs me to be!!!!!11

Re: Roll Call | Report to Admin

By marytnurse, supporting Barack Obama until I see his library built on donations from We The People Jul 9th 2008 at 8:28 pm EDT

oh wow, i didn't hear about all that!!! wow

Re: Obama for President! | Report to Admin

By Trish - Working To Elect That One Jul 9th 2008 at 8:31 pm EDT

He knew he couldn't please all of the people all of the time. Or perhaps he didn't remember what his position was supposed to be when he got up this morning.

"If God be for you, who can stand against you" | Report to Admin

By "Road " Scholar Jul 9th 2008 at 9:23 pm EDT

You idiots can't accuse Senator Obama of "flip flopping" on the war in IRAQ. HE NEVER VOTED FOR GOING TO WAR. If HRC, John McCain and others had Senator Obama's judgement, 4600, Americans would be alive today. And let us not forget over, 60,000 injured and maimed. This is our moment. This is our time. YES WE CAN!!!!

"If God be for you, who can stand against you" | Report to Admin

By "Road " Scholar Jul 9th 2008 at 9:24 pm EDT

You idiots can't accuse Senator Obama of "flip flopping" on the war in IRAQ. HE NEVER VOTED FOR GOING TO WAR. If HRC, John McCain and others had Senator Obama's judgement, 4600, Americans would be alive today. And let us not forget over, 60,000 injured and maimed. This is our moment. This is our time. YES WE CAN!!!!

Re: Obama for President! | Report to Admin

By Michelle "no distractions" in South Carolina Jul 9th 2008 at 10:50 pm EDT

Serious Question Here -

Has McCain showed up to vote on any single issue since he's wrapped up the nomination or while he was still in the primary for that matter? It seems like every time I hear about a vote going on, McCain isn't there.

He gets off by speaking and saying whatever he like and then not having to actually SHOW UP and vote on the damn issue!

Ugggghhhh

Re: Obama for President! | Report to Admin

By cindy from tucson Jul 9th 2008 at 8:00 pm EDT

as I said at the end of the last blog...McCain rarely votes...missed most votes in the Senate except for one ill fellow, I think...Here in Az we have been complaining about that for almost 2 years. He's just a jerk, really

Re: Obama for President! | Report to Admin

By Kim, part of the Greatest lobbying force Washington has ever seen Jul 9th 2008 at 9:24 pm EDT

I read that Senator McCain has missed more votes that any other Senator.

He missed the vote on the G.I. Bill.
He missed today's vote on the FISA amendment.
He missed today's vote on medicare.
just three important votes Senator McCain thinks are unimportant.

Re: Obama for President! | Report to Admin

By vassar13 Jul 10th 2008 at 1:48 am EDT

Which ever way he votes he lies about it anyway or Bush gives him credit for someone elses bill.

Re: Obama for President! | Report to Admin

By Global Citizen Linda Jul 9th 2008 at 9:02 pm EDT

Columbus Ohio in the house and standing up for Obama now and always

Re: Obama for President! | Report to Admin

By My 5 yr old knows Taekwondo Jul 9th 2008 at 9:21 pm EDT

We are fired up &

Re: Obama for President! | Report to Admin

By Benjamin Vos, Nashville Jul 9th 2008 at 9:31 pm EDT

Ready to Go!

Please donate | Report to Admin

By My 5 yr old knows Taekwondo Jul 9th 2008 at 8:01 pm EDT

Link

Please donate to stop the hate.

Hmm | Report to Admin

By Francis Hussein Jul 9th 2008 at 8:01 pm EDT

Am I the only one more interested to see Caroline rather than Hillary?
And No Snub to Clinton here, I respect her dearly.

Re: Hmm | Report to Admin

By Giddy Rabbit who is full of new energy! Jul 9th 2008 at 8:07 pm EDT

Caroline Rocks!!!

Re: Hmm | Report to Admin

By marti Jul 9th 2008 at 8:09 pm EDT

Much more excited about Caroline!

Was anyone else under the impression that Clinton and some others were going to support that bill that passed today? And why would she not? I don't have cable and have ehard no news about what the deal is...but here he is appearing with her??

Re: Hmm | Report to Admin

By GeorgiaPeach Jul 9th 2008 at 8:17 pm EDT

Caroline is awesome!

Re: Hmm | Report to Admin

By ladyof wisdom Jul 9th 2008 at 9:15 pm EDT

hillary is still trying to get the nomination. I respect obama for sticking to his guns. he could have change after all this pushing on the blogs. This bill didn't have to come up at this time It was done to push obama into a corner. His campaign is confusing the H out of the republican and angry hrc backers. The plan was to paint him as a left wing liberal his actions caused them to fail now they're saying he's moving to the center. Those that don't see that he can do more with fisa after he's elected don't want to see and probably wasn't going to vote for him anyway. my only problem with barack is that he trust people too much. I am no longer angry at hrc but I saw enough of her to make me really upset that she and her surrogates will do what ever it take to steal this nomination away from barack. don't kid yourself this is not over. some of her surrogates have moved to fox news that should tell you something. If a snake bites me once he will not get another chance. Obama is surrounded by a lot of snakes and he need to watch his step b/c it going to get rough. The real enemies of this country are the msm and the fat cats that owns the msm and some politicians that will sell their souls for a dollar. These are the people that keeps us divided and this division keeps them in power. They are going to fight him on the blogs, tv and radio and I plan to do all i can to help him get elected. my greates wish is to see the msm brought down from their pedestal. It's time for people to unite not against obama but the powers that have been in control for too long.

Powerhouse | Report to Admin

By Justin Brogden Jul 9th 2008 at 8:01 pm EDT

Wow, I'd love to see that! You've got the powerhouses of the Democratic Party on one stage.

Fired Up? | Report to Admin

By Giddy Rabbit who is full of new energy! Jul 9th 2008 at 8:05 pm EDT

Who's Fired up!

I am!!

Re: Fired Up? | Report to Admin

By Debby in Albuq., NM Jul 9th 2008 at 8:06 pm EDT

ME!!

Re: Fired Up? | Report to Admin

By GeorgiaPeach Jul 9th 2008 at 8:19 pm EDT

Me three!

Re: Fired Up? | Report to Admin

By ♥ Not.This.Time.Not.This.Year. ♥ Joyce from Canada ♥ ♥ Jul 9th 2008 at 8:23 pm EDT

I'm Fired Up and Ready to Go!

Hillary Clinton votes 'no' on the FISA bill | Report to Admin

By Neo Hussein Abraxas Jul 9th 2008 at 8:06 pm EDT

This is the day of shame for Barack Obama. All other influential senators voted against this constitution shredding amendment.

Even Hillary voted against it.

Link

This is really pathetic.

Re: Hillary Clinton votes 'no' on the FISA bill | Report to Admin

By Giddy Rabbit who is full of new energy! Jul 9th 2008 at 8:14 pm EDT

Give Obama some credit for his position on Habeas Corpus and the 2nd amendment!!!!

This is a much better bill than the one that came before.

Go Obama!

Re: Hillary Clinton votes 'no' on the FISA bill | Report to Admin

By Neo Hussein Abraxas Jul 9th 2008 at 8:23 pm EDT

The problem with Obama is that he gives fiery speeches, panders to the left but then goes and votes with the hawks. He's flip flopping on too many things.

Re: Hillary Clinton votes 'no' on the FISA bill | Report to Admin

By Nicki from TX - Lovin the new RACHEL MADDOW SHOW!!!! Jul 9th 2008 at 8:31 pm EDT

Really, Neo do you have any examples & links to support.

Re: Hillary Clinton votes 'no' on the FISA bill | Report to Admin

By marytnurse, supporting Barack Obama until I see his library built on donations from We The People Jul 9th 2008 at 8:47 pm EDT

neo has visited before, and often with the same sorts of problems fitting in. i'd offer therapy but he seems pretty resistant.

Re: Hillary Clinton votes 'no' on the FISA bill | Report to Admin

By Harry from Nahant, MA Jul 9th 2008 at 9:02 pm EDT

He said he'd filibuster against telecom immunity. Instead, he voted to cloture those who were trying to push that very filibuster.

What do you call that? I call it a breach of trust. This is not the guy I voted for in the primary. I am angry and frustrated. He's playing us for fools, saying "where else are they gonna go?" He knows most of us would never vote for McCain. At the moment I'm planning to vote the rest of the Democratic ticket and skip him instead.

I don't like being lied to.

Re: Hillary Clinton votes 'no' on the FISA bill | Report to Admin

By Giddy Rabbit who is full of new energy! Jul 9th 2008 at 10:13 pm EDT

FYI, 69 to 28. NOT FILIBUSTERABLE. Not even close.

Re: Hillary Clinton votes 'no' on the FISA bill | Report to Admin

By Harry from Nahant, MA Jul 9th 2008 at 10:19 pm EDT

And he voted against the filibuster. How is that not a complete reversal on a clearly stated campaign position?

Re: Hillary Clinton votes 'no' on the FISA bill | Report to Admin

By Obama for POTUS '08 AXIS OF HOPE will obliterate McBushist machine Jul 9th 2008 at 8:33 pm EDT

Neo,
I am pretty much tired of your negative attacks on Barack.

Second of all,Hillary only voted NO,because she can "afford" to do so,she is no longer in this race.
I can already hear NeoTards screaming about FISA,if Clinton was the nominee,"THIS WEAK WOMAN can't protect us",and blah blah.
If she was the nominee,you can bet your whole house,that she would have voted YES. I mean,who voted YES to war in Iraq?
Who wanted to obliterate Iran?

I am just pointing out the facts,without being negative on Clinton,I am just saying that you can vote different when you are not a presidential candidate.

And I wan't Barack to be the president,and not just another number in the House. Ask yourself,why doesn't Democratic Congress work? Because they need 67% to overthrow any of Bushes vetoes,so it doesn't help having majority of 52% or so.

Re: Hillary Clinton votes 'no' on the FISA bill | Report to Admin

By Neo Hussein Abraxas Jul 9th 2008 at 8:42 pm EDT

And what he does NOT become president? What then?

The repugs and McCain will be able to use the amendment to spy on whomever they want. I'm sick and tired of being afraid of the 'terrists'.

We're already just shy of full cavity body search at airports. If Obama doesn't have the guts to stand up to this nonsense then he really is an out of touch elitist.

Re: Hillary Clinton votes 'no' on the FISA bill | Report to Admin

By Obama for POTUS '08 AXIS OF HOPE will obliterate McBushist machine Jul 9th 2008 at 8:49 pm EDT

Neo,my point is again,ONLY WINNING IN NOVEMBER MATTERS.
When Obama is president on January 20th,with the Democratic majority House,he can do whatever he wants,because he will have support of the House too.
While Bush is vetoing House all the time,knowing that they don't like him,but he also knows they don't have 67% to overthrow his vetoes.

Again,we did see how others voted when they were in position to do so,right before they "prepared themself to run for president".

Re: Hillary Clinton votes 'no' on the FISA bill | Report to Admin

By Harry from Nahant, MA Jul 9th 2008 at 9:06 pm EDT

Brilliant! So we roll the dice on the constitution, and if Obama loses in November, we kiss the 4th amendment goodbye. Even if Obama wins, eventually we'll get a power-hungry president, and now we've given him warrantless wiretapping. Hell, how do I know Obama won't get power-mad if he wins? This "Trust in Obama" stuff is crazy. No branch of government should have unchecked power. Power corrupts.

Re: Hillary Clinton votes 'no' on the FISA bill | Report to Admin

By Christine "No Distractions" O'Bama Jul 9th 2008 at 9:11 pm EDT

One very real fact everyone seems to be conveniently forgetting is that this bill was not one vote from being blocked. It was 30. Barack's vote, while meaningful to us on as a matter of principle, did nothing as a practical matter. The bill would have passed no matter how Barack voted.

Re: Hillary Clinton votes 'no' on the FISA bill | Report to Admin

By Harry from Nahant, MA Jul 9th 2008 at 10:29 pm EDT

Ya, who cares about principle anyway? It's way more important to follow the rest of the sheep. After all, that's what leaders do, right?

Baaaaaaaa!

Re: Hillary Clinton votes 'no' on the FISA bill | Report to Admin

By Christine "No Distractions" O'Bama Jul 9th 2008 at 10:46 pm EDT

Harry, speaking of principle, how about creating a profile or writing a blog here so we can figure out where you are coming from.

Before you judge Barack, how about looking at the bigger picture. I suggest that none of us understands all of the factors involved in Barack's vote today. Perhaps Barack WAS voting on principle.

As a lawyer, I am starting to think there is a Trojan horse in that bill. Mark my words.

Meanwhile I will be donating, calling and knocking over-time to pick up your slack. You can thank me in January when you have healthcare, college loans, lower taxes...

Re: Hillary Clinton votes 'no' on the FISA bill | Report to Admin

By Harry from Nahant, MA Jul 10th 2008 at 12:03 am EDT

Christine,

I'll tell you where I'm coming from. I'm coming from a position of having once believed that Obama was different. However, his post-primary lurch to the right, on campaign finance, Israel, guns, capital punishment, abortion, and FISA, have left me cold. I haven't changed my mind about Obama's presidency, he has.

As for profiles and blogs, my question is why? How does my birthdate, my motto(?!), or my cutesy icon have anything to do with the logic of my words? You want a blog? What do you think you've been reading. You'd feel better if I posted some silly diary of my daily routine? Or maybe shared some recipes? Wake up! This isn't a quilting bee, we're deciding on the next leader of one of the largest, and most heavily armed, nations on the planet. And you're pining for my motto? Jeez!!

A Trojan horse that wise Obama can see, but Feingold, Durbin, and the rest of the principled Democrats are too dumb to detect? If Barack was voting on principle, then it was a different principle than the one he stood on when he promised a filibuster. But as a lawyer, you probably understand the "flexibility" of his principles better than I.

And who should I thank if McCain wins and your Trojan horse turns out to be the tool by which he starts recording your calls, gathering your emails, and ordering sneak and peek searches of your office, all without a warrant? I guess I'll have you and wise Obama to thank for that, eh?

Re: Hillary Clinton votes 'no' on the FISA bill | Report to Admin

By Harry from Nahant, MA Jul 10th 2008 at 12:20 am EDT

You'd better drop this now and start stretching your logic muscles for Obama's next stride rightward. I understand he'll have news for us soon on his plans for partial privatization of Social Security. Now, let me think, who was the last bozo to tout that idea?

Oh, and see if you can work up a yoga pose to cover his walk-back on abortion. Lessee, we can't let a woman's state of mind justify her right to choose.

That problem with Obama's "change you can believe in" is that it keeps right on changing. No one knows where he'll end up on an issue, because he's so "flexible" he could land anywhere, just like the little ball on the roulette table. Place your bets, ladies and gentlemen, but don't bet the farm, because where he stops, nobody knows.

Change, change, change!

Re: Hillary Clinton votes 'no' on the FISA bill | Report to Admin

By Benjamin Vos, Nashville Jul 9th 2008 at 9:39 pm EDT

This is a bit too much of the "Chicken Little" thing for me.

Don't go to extreme paranoia. It's not constructive, it's not attractive, and it's not healthy.

The 7-day warrantless period (during warrant application) is in emergency cases only, and there are strict parameters around that.

FISA is clearly the law of the land again.

4th Amendment is only about unreasonable searches and seizures - it's reasonable to have some concerns about certain people who engage in cell phone conversations or internet chatter that suggests a dangerous pattern or which threatens national security. You're not allowed to talk about "bombs" in an airport - that's a violation of the 1st Amendment, but it's understood that you just don't do that. Your speech is free - say what you want, but you're responsible for it.

What you say in your private home, on a landline telephone call, etc., is still protected. All citizens are protected by FISA.

Re: Hillary Clinton votes 'no' on the FISA bill | Report to Admin

By Czarina Vero - who loves her new President - OBAMA!!!!! Jul 9th 2008 at 8:36 pm EDT

What was his other pro-Hawk vote? Voting to name Iranian military a terrorist organization? Voting to authorize the Iraq war? Saying he was going to obliterate Iran?

Re: Hillary Clinton votes 'no' on the FISA bill | Report to Admin

By Stan Z- Christian-President Obama Knows His Stuff Jul 9th 2008 at 9:20 pm EDT

You know something is wrong when people break out the old tired flip flopper language. Wasn't it George Bush who liked to use that often? It's sad to see so many people emulating one of our worst presidents and providing cover for his replacement(John McCain).

Senator McCain didn't even vote. Isn't it besides the point where he stood before? Isn't he still a greater threat to the Constitution than Obama?
For months Barack Obama had to withstand attacks form the Republican Party who turned their entire attention toward him, the Clinton half of the Democratic Party and the media. Now these amazing people who never compromised on anything in their lives are taking their final idealistic stand against Obama!

Re: Hillary Clinton votes 'no' on the FISA bill | Report to Admin

By Smuhamm Jul 9th 2008 at 10:04 pm EDT

Shame on her, her vote for the war was the cause of Bush erecting FISA and using it.

Re: Hillary Clinton votes 'no' on the FISA bill | Report to Admin

By Just Capri Jul 9th 2008 at 8:38 pm EDT

I'm hoping that you can clarify what the issue is that you have with Sen. Obama voting for the FISA bill.

The way I understand it is that as things are today, there is no FISA court and that permits the government to engage in warrantless wire tapping.

This new FISA bill will reinstate the FISA court BUT also includes civil immunity for the telecom companies that assisted GW commit a felony.

What is still unclear to me is why civil immunity for telecom companies is such a problem when GW committed a criminal offence and the new FISA bill does not include any criminal immunity for anyone??

Can anyone clarify for me what the issue re: FISA is vis a vis Sen Obama - without me having to actually read the bill?? Thanks :)

Re: Hillary Clinton votes 'no' on the FISA bill | Report to Admin

By Neo Hussein Abraxas Jul 9th 2008 at 8:56 pm EDT

Read the ACLU page:

Link

Re: Hillary Clinton votes 'no' on the FISA bill | Report to Admin

By Smuhamm Jul 9th 2008 at 10:05 pm EDT

READ THE BILL FOR YOURSELF, FORM YOUR OWN OPINION THAT IS VERY IMPORTANT.

Re: Hillary Clinton votes 'no' on the FISA bill | Report to Admin

By Paul J. Los Angeles Jul 9th 2008 at 9:04 pm EDT

Neo, the feds have been spying on us from way back when. So now you have learned something new, or heard of something new called FISA...did you know that 50 U.S.C.A. § 1801 et seq otherwise known as the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act was enacted in 1978?

You see, all you folks get bogged down on FISA without looking at the rtoad ahead - THE US SUPREME COURT..

here's some food for thought to you and others like you - After 9/11 Congress amended FISA to better enable fed. agencies to obtain intelligence for what we hope was the prevention of terrorism. Before the amendment, the feds or the government were only required to show that the "primary purpose" of surveillance was for foreign intelligence collection and not criminal prosecution. Congress disapproved of this test and through the Patriot Act, amended FISA allowing the government to conduct surveillance of agents of foreign powers if foreign intelligence is the "significant purpose" of such surveillance.

The amendment was challenged in In re Sealed Case<1>, 310 F.3d 717, 190 A.L.R. Fed. 725 (Foreign Intel. Surv. Ct. Rev. 2002), which in abrogating a previous FISA court ruling stated that the FISA did not require the government to show that its primary purpose in undertaking the surveillance was not criminal prosecution, and held that the "significant purpose" test did not violate the Fourth Amendment.

You better make sure that the next time a case like this is filed, and it makes it way to the Supreme court, just pray that the Supreme Court is not made up of McCain appointments.

Oh yeah and by the way, three supreme court justices are about to retire and of the remaining 6, FIVE were appointed by GOP presidents!!!

Re: Hillary Clinton votes 'no' on the FISA bill | Report to Admin

By Neo Hussein Abraxas Jul 9th 2008 at 9:06 pm EDT

Yeah, the SC judges is a very important but largely ignored issue. I'll grant you that.

I still think Obama was very wrong on this FISA amendment and it will cost him a lot of netroots support.

Re: Hillary Clinton votes 'no' on the FISA bill | Report to Admin

By Paul J. Los Angeles Jul 9th 2008 at 9:15 pm EDT

That's your opinion, which everyone is entitled to, and yes his position on FISA probably will cost him some net root support...but is this so different from any other issue where people are gonna have some difference in ideology - abortion, gay marriage, faith based initiatives, Israel, tax cuts etc....There is no policy issue on which he has 100% agreement...none.

Re: Hillary Clinton votes 'no' on the FISA bill | Report to Admin

By Global Citizen Linda Jul 9th 2008 at 9:03 pm EDT

Next?????

Re: Hillary Clinton votes 'no' on the FISA bill | Report to Admin

By Brian S. Jul 9th 2008 at 9:28 pm EDT

Does anyone here REALLY think that Hillary would have voted against this if SHE were the nominee??? Give me a break!!!

Eclipsed | Report to Admin

By Peter from San Jose, CA Jul 9th 2008 at 8:07 pm EDT

All of this is eclipsed by Senator Obama's vote for the FISA bill.

Obama is right next to Dianne Feinstein in laying bare what corporate Democrats are all about.

I'd rather wallow in the ugly truthfulness of 4 more years with McCain than slide back to the duplicity of a "progressive" Democratic administration.

Re: Eclipsed | Report to Admin

By Lynne From Bellwether MO Jul 9th 2008 at 8:13 pm EDT

Well, bye then. I can't stomach the thought of someone more hawkish than Cheney and not nearly as intelligent. Too, too scary!!

Re: Eclipsed | Report to Admin

By Smuhamm Jul 9th 2008 at 10:10 pm EDT

YOU REALLY DON'T MEAN THAT, AND BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU THINK, THOUGHTS CAN CREATE YOUR WORLD WITH PEOPLE AROUND YOU WITH MCCAINS MINDSET, BECAUSE MCCAIN IS NOT GETTING IN. YOU ARE GOING TO BE STUCK WITH DEMOCRATES IN THE FOREFRONT, SO FIND A WAY TO BEAR WITH IT,THAT IS IF YOU CONTINUE TO THINK MCCAIN WOULD BE BETTER.

Re: Eclipsed | Report to Admin

By Archaeology Jim Hussein Jul 9th 2008 at 8:23 pm EDT

Well, have fun "wallow(ing) in the ugly truthfulness".

In Obama We Trust!

Re: Eclipsed | Report to Admin

By Neo Hussein Abraxas Jul 9th 2008 at 8:27 pm EDT

> In Obama We Trust!

Do you know how silly this is? This is a personality cult mindset! You should trust in the checks and balances of the three branches of government (which are currently being undermined). Blindly trusting one person is ridiculous.

Re: Eclipsed | Report to Admin

By Steven Hussein Obamanaut Jul 9th 2008 at 8:49 pm EDT

Wow, double-teaming trolls, I'm impressed! Although I think they were triple-teaming the last blog...

Re: Eclipsed | Report to Admin

By Global Citizen Linda Jul 9th 2008 at 9:04 pm EDT

Next?????

Countdown | Report to Admin

By Debby in Albuq., NM Jul 9th 2008 at 8:07 pm EDT

Watch Rachel Maddow rip John McCain.....I'm loving it after all the drama of today!! Beautiful!

Re: Countdown | Report to Admin

By vassar13 Jul 10th 2008 at 1:58 am EDT

Wonderful...at least a couple of people see through that old air biscuit !!!!! Does anyone else smell stink on this site?????? Whew !!!!!

It's Done | Report to Admin

By Justin Brogden Jul 9th 2008 at 8:07 pm EDT

Well, the FISA vote is over. I don't think it went the way most of us would have wanted but I hope we can now put it behind us.

Re: It's Done | Report to Admin

By Hopeful Jul 9th 2008 at 8:14 pm EDT

I agree Justin. It will take a few days to try to reconcile, but I doubt there is or ever will be one person in Politics that I would agree with %100 of time.

I do hope that that the list of things "to do" on day one includes some measures to rectify the shedding of the Constitution over the past 8 years.

Re: It's Done | Report to Admin

By marytnurse, supporting Barack Obama until I see his library built on donations from We The People Jul 9th 2008 at 8:50 pm EDT

i'm all about that. in fact, what about coming up with a buzz line to repeat to folks that still need to address it ad nauseum? i mean, if this were the first week of this, ok...but this has gone far far beyond tolerable.

so what shall we say?

Re: It's Done | Report to Admin

By Global Citizen Linda Jul 9th 2008 at 9:06 pm EDT

My comment to this is as follows: "the only person I agree with 100% is me but I am not a candidate for president so I prioritize my issues"

Re: It's Done | Report to Admin

By Nashfan for Obama in Phoenix, who has had "ENOUGH!" Jul 9th 2008 at 9:01 pm EDT

I completely agree. I admit that I would have preferred if Obama had voted against it. I would like to understand his reasons for voting for it. Regardless of how he voted on FISA and why, it is important that we all pull together and help him win in November. The alternative is too scary.

Re: It's Done | Report to Admin

By marytnurse, supporting Barack Obama until I see his library built on donations from We The People Jul 9th 2008 at 9:32 pm EDT

hi five!!

Re: It's Done | Report to Admin

By vassar13 Jul 10th 2008 at 2:01 am EDT

You better believe ...we need to vote for Senator Obama to be the next POTUS !!!!
I for one am redoubling my efforts tomorrow.

lost my vote today | Report to Admin

By Bob from Winchester, VA Jul 9th 2008 at 8:08 pm EDT

just another politician

Re: lost my vote today | Report to Admin

By Neo Hussein Abraxas Jul 9th 2008 at 8:09 pm EDT

Even Hillary and spineless Reid voted against the amendment. This is ridiculous.

Re: lost my vote today | Report to Admin

By Debbie for Obama Jul 9th 2008 at 8:34 pm EDT

would the bill have passed even if Barack didn't vote for it?

ALL I CAN SAY IS NOT THIS TIME!!!

Re: lost my vote today | Report to Admin

By Czarina Vero - who loves her new President - OBAMA!!!!! Jul 9th 2008 at 8:40 pm EDT

No one will answer that. I've been asking that for weeks.

Notice how all of these naysayers have names that say something like, "Jim from Denver, CO." or "Jane from NM."

McCain needs to give them some better ideas to "trick us."

"If God be for you, who can stand against you" | Report to Admin

By "Road " Scholar Jul 9th 2008 at 9:42 pm EDT

Neo Hussein Abraxas: HRC voted against"Fisa". If she had voted against going to war in Iraq, 4600 of our brave young Americans would be alive today and perhaps be with their families. Let's not forget that HRC vote to invade Iraq, also caused as many as, 60,000, injured and maimed. Unlike, HRC, "OBAMA NEVER VOTED TO INVADE IRAQ". This is our moment. This is our time. YES WE CAN!!!!

"If God be for you, who can stand against you" | Report to Admin

By "Road " Scholar Jul 9th 2008 at 9:42 pm EDT

Neo Hussein Abraxas: HRC voted against"Fisa". If she had voted against going to war in Iraq, 4600 of our brave young Americans would be alive today and perhaps be with their families. Let's not forget that HRC vote to invade Iraq, also caused as many as, 60,000, injured and maimed. Unlike, HRC, "OBAMA NEVER VOTED TO INVADE IRAQ". This is our moment. This is our time. YES WE CAN!!!!

"If God be for you, who can stand against you" | Report to Admin

By "Road " Scholar Jul 9th 2008 at 9:45 pm EDT

Neo Hussein Abraxas: HRC voted against"Fisa". If she had voted against going to war in Iraq, 4600 of our brave young Americans would be alive today and perhaps be with their families. Let's not forget that HRC vote to invade Iraq, also caused as many as, 60,000, injured and maimed. Unlike, HRC, "OBAMA NEVER VOTED TO INVADE IRAQ". This is our moment. This is our time. YES WE CAN!!!!

"If God be for you, who can stand against you" | Report to Admin

By "Road " Scholar Jul 9th 2008 at 9:47 pm EDT

Neo Hussein Abraxas: HRC voted against"Fisa". If she had voted against going to war in Iraq, 4600 of our brave young Americans would be alive today and perhaps be with their families. Let's not forget that HRC vote to invade Iraq, also caused as many as, 60,000, injured and maimed. Unlike, HRC, "OBAMA NEVER VOTED TO INVADE IRAQ". This is our moment. This is our time. YES WE CAN!!!!

"If God be for you, who can stand against you" | Report to Admin

By "Road " Scholar Jul 9th 2008 at 9:52 pm EDT

Neo Hussein Abraxas: HRC voted against"Fisa". If she had voted against going to war in Iraq, 4600 of our brave young Americans would be alive today and perhaps be with their families. Let's not forget that HRC vote to invade Iraq, also caused as many as, 60,000, injured and maimed. Unlike, HRC, "OBAMA NEVER VOTED TO INVADE IRAQ". This is our moment. This is our time. YES WE CAN!!!!

Re: lost my vote today | Report to Admin

By Debby in Albuq., NM Jul 9th 2008 at 8:10 pm EDT

Just another whiner......bye, bye. Good luck with John McCain.

Re: lost my vote today | Report to Admin

By Tammi King -No nonsence we know who we need to elect Jul 9th 2008 at 8:11 pm EDT

Now can we loose your pressence

Re: lost my vote today | Report to Admin

By vassar13 Jul 10th 2008 at 2:02 am EDT

I'm still smelling something on this site...Am I the only one.?????

Re: lost my vote today | Report to Admin

By T Jul 9th 2008 at 8:12 pm EDT

Vote for McCain he didn't care enough to show up!!
.. we ALL knew 2 weeks ago how Obama was going to vote because he communicates to us.

Good Luck *bye*

Re: lost my vote today | Report to Admin

By Neo Hussein Abraxas Jul 9th 2008 at 8:14 pm EDT

Bush also communicates what he's about to do. The Iraq invasion wasn't exactly a sneak attack. That doesn't make it OK.

Re: lost my vote today | Report to Admin

By T Jul 9th 2008 at 8:17 pm EDT

if Bush has your trust... goodie for you LOL

Re: lost my vote today | Report to Admin

By Neo Hussein Abraxas Jul 9th 2008 at 8:21 pm EDT

Where have I said that? I said precisely the opposite.

Re: lost my vote today | Report to Admin

By marti Jul 9th 2008 at 8:17 pm EDT

Bush Lies!

Re: lost my vote today | Report to Admin

By LiberTLover Jul 9th 2008 at 9:27 pm EDT

My question for everyone threatening to withhold their vote and/or financial support for Obama: If he voted no on FISA and then a series of McCain attack ads about how he won't protect Americans from terrorists and has made them less safe is successful, and Obama lost, would you be happy with winning your moral battle and losing the overall war?

So McCain wins. No more healthcare through your employer, here is some cash, go find some coverage unless you have a pre-existing condition. The insurance companies still won't give you coverage. How many people will die from worse healthcare coverage than there is now? I watched on CNN that a mother has to take her 5 year old daughter and 3 year old son to China as they have Bennet's disease and need stem cell treatment or they will die. The family will be hard pressed financially, but for other families without those funds, they can tell their children bedtime stories about how some people believed that the man who could have helped them was weak and wouldn't protect America so he lost and we're sorry we can't get you the medicine you need.

And all of the drafted soldiers being blown to bloody bits in Iran and Syria whose flag draped coffins still cannot be shown, no doubt they will be comforted the telecomm companies still got immunity and now they get to show everyone what a tough guy McCain is.

The people who have lost the 400,000 jobs and those yet to be lost, that have lost and will lose their homes, and those struggling to feed their families or heat their homes, or even drive to work or to look for work, do you think they will sleep soundly at night knowing that at least people had good intentions but unfortunately it worked to the Republicans' advantage, so no harm, no foul and no hard feelings.

My point is that this election, because of the sheer unprecedented level of arrogance and incompetence under Bush, is fast becoming a matter of pure survival for millions. Laws can be rewitten and changed. People's lives are more important than revenge on the telecomms right now. We are Barack's strength and his weakness. He is motivated to help these people and we cannot let ourselves be divided and let them down. If for no other reason, vote for them.

Re: lost my vote today | Report to Admin

By vassar13 Jul 10th 2008 at 2:08 am EDT

As a lifelong Republican..I voted for Bush twice....two of the biggest mistakes of my life...I have to make up for it this time...Everyday..I'm trying to do something...no everything I can to get Obama elected. The above post is great. It states every reason..I have to vote for Obama....it may be the one below...but it was great.

Re: lost my vote today | Report to Admin

By yesterdaygone : they said this day would never come Jul 9th 2008 at 8:17 pm EDT

naderism strikes again. 2000 didn't teach you anything?

Re: lost my vote today | Report to Admin

By Archaeology Jim Hussein Jul 9th 2008 at 8:26 pm EDT

I like turtles...

Re: lost my vote today | Report to Admin

By Debbie for Obama Jul 9th 2008 at 8:33 pm EDT

Bob would the bill have passed even if Barack didn't vote for it?

Re: lost my vote today | Report to Admin

By Global Citizen Linda Jul 9th 2008 at 9:00 pm EDT

Next?????

Re: lost my vote today | Report to Admin

By yesterdaygone : they said this day would never come Jul 9th 2008 at 9:19 pm EDT

lol

Re: lost my vote today | Report to Admin

By BeoncaEndorsesB-Rock Jul 9th 2008 at 10:26 pm EDT

Please GO already. By all means, don't let the door hit ya! I'm so tired of the whiny posts....my GOD!! Don't you get tired of repeating yourself???

Back up Off the Senator! | Report to Admin

By Mo Justice, Mo Peace Jul 9th 2008 at 8:10 pm EDT

I have to give it to Sen. Obama. He ain't scared! He formed his stance. We disagreed, some of you fanatically disagreed to the point of being disagreeable. And Sen. Obama stuck to his guns and showed up to vote. He said there will be times that we disagreed.

To me, this is leadership. Leadership is not ducking votes of this importance like McCain did. And you know what makes it worst? The "Lion" Ted Kennedy, coming off of brain surgery; had enough courage and moral fortitude to show up to vote and lead. But McCain, the Republican presumptive presidential nominee, ducked the vote. This man (McCain) is not fit to be POTUS-period.

Re: Back up Off the Senator! | Report to Admin

By Neo Hussein Abraxas Jul 9th 2008 at 8:12 pm EDT

If that's leadership then George W. Bush has it in spades! He never backs off or changes his mind. Now we can tell he has some things in common with Obama.

Re: Back up Off the Senator! | Report to Admin

By T Jul 9th 2008 at 8:16 pm EDT

Does Bush communicate honestly with us and keep us informed??..
LOL don't think so!

Vote McCain then, good luck!

Re: Back up Off the Senator! | Report to Admin

By Neo Hussein Abraxas Jul 9th 2008 at 8:17 pm EDT

Yeah. Bush says exactly what he's going to do and then does it. He didn't exactly keep the invasion of Iraq secret! If this is enough for you to support a candidate you have pretty low standards.

Re: Back up Off the Senator! | Report to Admin

By T Jul 9th 2008 at 8:22 pm EDT

and if Bush has been someone for you to look up to, you are so disillusional! *bye* and good luck!!

Re: Back up Off the Senator! | Report to Admin

By yesterdaygone : they said this day would never come Jul 9th 2008 at 8:22 pm EDT

hillarites love to compare barack to bush.

you remind me why PUMA is such an apt name for all you whiners.

Re: Back up Off the Senator! | Report to Admin

By Kathleen O'Bamacan Jul 9th 2008 at 8:48 pm EDT

Ok I know I am always harping on name calling but I have to know---what does PUMA mean? I am guessing you aren't talking about the shoe ;O)

Re: Back up Off the Senator! | Report to Admin

By yesterdaygone : they said this day would never come Jul 9th 2008 at 8:53 pm EDT

it's a pro hillary group that insist on keeping up their hatred for barack, even to the point of supporting mccain.

puma stands for "Party Unity My A**"

but it turns out one of the puma founders was a mccain operative all along. he was only pretending to be a hillary supporter.

Re: Back up Off the Senator! | Report to Admin

By Kathleen O'Bamacan Jul 9th 2008 at 9:03 pm EDT

GET OUT! I am so out of the loop. Thanks for the refresher course.

Re: Back up Off the Senator! | Report to Admin

By Viva Obama so proud to have voted for HOPE and to have rejected the hype Jul 9th 2008 at 11:00 pm EDT

of course. the gop is slime for real. they slip amongst us to drive wedges. they know it's the only way they can win. that's the way they've been doing it for years and silly us we fall for it everytime. come on. they put the bill out there and mccain did not even bother to show up. meanwhile we've been calling each other names, threatening to sue, blackmailing, this and that. when in actuality the new fisa bill is not the disater everyone is ranting. barack took a stand. if he were pandering he would have not voted today. he voted this bill for a good reason, i liek tobelieve, and he has been open about it. people seem to block off their ears until it sounds exactly like what they want to hear. well life's too tough for that. granted it's not a perfect bill, even barack said it's not what he would like it to be. as someone said let's move beyond this. we must cleanse the virus infections planted here by the gop. we must clean house like now and get back on track to win that white house. it's ours to lose.

Re: Back up Off the Senator! | Report to Admin

By vassar13 Jul 10th 2008 at 2:11 am EDT

Maybe a lot of the women were too...makes a lot of sense..when you stop to really think about it.

Re: Back up Off the Senator! | Report to Admin

By Mo Justice, Mo Peace Jul 9th 2008 at 8:26 pm EDT

Yeah, please don't compare Obama to Bush. Obama voted based on what he felt was necessary to protect America and not based on some ideology.

Re: Back up Off the Senator! | Report to Admin

By Jonathan from Decatur, GA Jul 9th 2008 at 9:40 pm EDT

Obama voted for the FISA bill today for the same reason Hillary voted for the AUMF for Iraq in 2002: she wanted to position herself as tough on foreign policy. I condemned her although it would have passed without her vote. We have to hold Obama to the same standard or we are just hypocrites. I do not believe he voted for it for national security reasons but political ones: the fear of being labeled "soft on terrorism". If today's bill had not passed, the NSA would still be wiretapping.

Re: Back up Off the Senator! | Report to Admin

By Debbie for Obama Jul 9th 2008 at 8:35 pm EDT

Amen Marcel!

Help! | Report to Admin

By FinishLine08 Jul 9th 2008 at 8:11 pm EDT

Is there possibly another link to view this event. My computer internet speed is so slow that the video feed keeps stopping after every 10 seconds.

Re: Help! | Report to Admin

By yesterdaygone : they said this day would never come Jul 9th 2008 at 8:14 pm EDT

i'm on a fast modem line with a newish computer and it's halting for me too.

Re: Help! | Report to Admin

By Kim D, I survived the Tx Dem Convention, Jul 9th 2008 at 8:18 pm EDT

Yep mine keeps breaking also.

Re: Help! | Report to Admin

By Professor Xavior-The Ultimate CZARINA Mutant in the Universe! Jul 9th 2008 at 8:15 pm EDT

I feel you. lol datajl

Re: Help! | Report to Admin

By Kim D, I survived the Tx Dem Convention, Jul 9th 2008 at 8:21 pm EDT

CNN is carrying it and also having techinal problems

Re: Help! | Report to Admin

By Meri Who Loves Writing Haiku About Barack Jul 9th 2008 at 8:23 pm EDT

...and the feed from CNN is spittin' and cracklin"-"technical difficulties"

Re: Help! | Report to Admin

By Lynne From Bellwether MO Jul 9th 2008 at 8:24 pm EDT

I'm on high speed too, and its halting. I had to shut it down.

OBAMA has lost my support | Report to Admin

By Coach from Lexington, KY Jul 9th 2008 at 8:11 pm EDT

AS A LIBERAL AND 15 MONTH SUPPORTER AND CONTRIBUTOR TO SEN OBAMAS CAMPAIGN I HAVE DECIDED HE WILL NOT GET MY VOTE ON NOV 4 BECAUSE HIS SUPPORT OF THE FISA BILL
AND BECOMING TOO MUCH LIKE GW BUSH ( FAITH BASED INITITIVES, IRAN. IRAQ ABORTION)

ITS OVER --HE WILL NOT GET MY VOTE
I FEEL AS THOUGH IVE BEEN LIED TO BY OBAMA