Lets Review some recent history:
McCain 'Very Honored' By Support Of Pastor Preaching 'End-Time Confrontation With Iran'» Yesterday, hard-line conservative Pastor John Hagee, founder of Christians United for Israel, endorsed John McCain. Hagee said that McCain "is a man of principle, [who] does not stand boldly on both sides of any issue." McCain, who had been courting the endorsement for over a year, said that he was "very honored by Pastor John Hagee's endorsement." Demonstrating how wildly out of the American religious and political mainstream Hagee's views are, McCain's acceptance of Hagee's endorsement was condemned today by conservative William Donohue, president of the Catholic League. Calling Hagee a "bigot," Donahue said the right-wing pastor has waged "an unrelenting war against the Catholic Church" by "calling it 'The Great Whore,' an 'apostate church,' the 'anti-Christ,' and a 'false cult system.'" Hagee holds many other radical beliefs. In a 2006 address to CUFI, Hagee declared: The United States must join Israel in a pre-emptive military strike against Iran to fulfill God's plan for both Israel and the West… a biblically prophesied end-time confrontation with Iran, which will lead to the Rapture, Tribulation, and Second Coming of Christ.
To Pro McCain:
Lets review a brief history in modern day home-grown terrorism:In response to this comment, I provide a refresher regarding injustices carried out by the Religious Right: Case in Point: Abortion Bombings. Yes, Christians can be terrorists also, if taking the "law" into their own hands. This is why a law which protects religion before people is no law at all. It's a commandment, and becomes the religion itself. This is great if your religion happens to be the chosen one in the court of "law" which enforces it. However, for all "outsiders" I imagine it would be a living hell. It sure seems like judgement to me, which happens to be in the bible as something that Christians aren't suppose to participate in.Lets look at Abortion Bombings by the Religious Right. To GoBama:
Your sense of moral equivalency is very, very strange to compare the agenda of the religious right and the islamofacists. I do know this. The religious right does not blow up military barracks in other countries, does not blow up and kill people in embassies in other countries, does not blow up Navy ships and kill soldiers in other countries, does not fly airplanes into and kill innocent civilians that were working in prominent buildings, does not slice the head off anyone, etc., etc., etc.
You are right here, about doing these things in other countries. They do them right here at home though. I suppose these civilians aren't deemed "innocent" however by the Religious Right, therefore no sin is committed in their eyes. It is much like the justifications used by fascist groups of all sorts.
Wayne, you cannot decide what is acceptable to me. I do not accept the label of the USA being a torturing nation. To me, a label is a way to identify and characterize something. To be an accurate label, it must be fair and project the true nature of what is being labeled. I will never agree that it is accurate to label the USA as a torturing nation to you or anyone. The fact that on certain rare occasions techniques many consider to be torturous have been used to extract information from terrorists to save Americans lives is something that was regrettably necessary.
Wayne, if you are comfortable considering the United States of America a “torturing nation”, and if you are comfortable with a US presidential candidate going to Germany and trashing our country, that is your right. My view is that we saved Germany from both the Nazi’s and the Communists, and we made the Germany that exists today possible.
I too wish we did not have to spend money in Iraq. Good people can and will disagree over our motivation and our tactics for accomplishing our goals. Some of it went very well, some of it didn’t. It’s going better now. Good people can and will disagree over why we have no been attacked on American soil for almost 7 years. But, it is a fact that we have been safe during that period. To me, national defense is the main purpose of our federal government. Lemonade will no protect us when evil comes calling.
Atlanta, GA last week: Presidential fund raiser
A ten year old in Atlanta, GA had a lemonade stand set up in his front yard, and president Bush made the statement that he would stop at the stand and buy some lemonade on the way out of a fundraiser. He didn't do it. Instead, he just drove by in his motorcade, slowed down and gave the thumbs up. A few minutes later the neighborhood was hit with 70+mph winds, trees were knocked over and houses were damaged.
I asked the lemonade stand owner what he thought about the president. The ten year old replied Bush had his chance, but now his chance is over. He seemed a little dissapointed the president didn't make a stop as he had publicized. Its funny. So, with these events, and applying republican campaign logic and mud slinging style: Wherever bush goes havoc is wreaked. He could make a promise to a kid to buy lemonade and then go back on his word. A big dark cloud follows George Bush and clan around. It is the result of the republican environmentally unfriendly policies. The cloud causes thousands of dollars in damage to our society. All the above is true based on the "facts" I have provided. Lets look at the source of our information as we move forward. There is a lot of wasted time in not discussing that.Many points we talked about are very ambiguous. One was "Torturing nation". I showed how the USA does in fact use torture, and therefore Obama didn't "trash" the nation in Berlin. Delivering the "trash" and "trashing" are different things. Don't confuse the message with the messenger in this case. Before moving forward, I just wanted to clarify that there is a lot of money supporting false arguments out there. As soon as one argument is shown to be false, attention is turned to another, then another and another. Its a fruitless effort, only designed to avoid facts and important points through distraction. Everyone I speak with, Republicans and Democrats, are in agreement that the money spent in Iraq could be used more effectively at home on our infrastructure. Things like: mass transit. Things like health care. If the government should not get involved in this type of spending, then how is it appropriate for the government to spend on military affairs? Military spending is distributing the wealth of our nation through another process.
I suggest the following campaign motto for this hot summer: Make More Lemonade and Less War
Proposed:
The Panama Canal is vital to the national defense of America. We did buy it and build it. I tend to think giving the canal to Panama was a good idea, but we need to be able to use it and defend it if necessary. If it falls in the wrong hands, or if our ability to use it is compromised, there may be a terrible price to pay one day.
Fortunately, we are also the most generous nation on earth. Although, based on the following, it has less to do with government and more to do with un-coerced giving:
"And if it were made public that we could have stopped the disaster if only we had been willing to use more brutal means, I can assure you that both parties would immediately cleanse themselves of any scruples they might have had about torture. Nor would anyone who opposed the use of torture for state security have a chance to be elected dog catcher ever again. I am not telling you what should happen. I am telling you what will happen. If you want to preserve a republic that can afford scruples about torture, you have to prevent the unthinkable from happening. And that may mean making some hard choices now." War is hell no doubt. Any torture is horrible, no doubt. The people who were vaporized instantly in the World Trade Towers perhaps were not tortured, but perhaps their families feel tortured by the memory. The people in the World Trade Towers who were baked, broiled or fried may have felt tortured, as may those who died in like fashion in the Pentagon. The people who chose to leap to their death from the World Trade Towers may have felt tortured both before they leapt and on the way down to their very messy death. At least some of those who died in the Pennsylvania field had the satisfaction of knowing that they were sacrificing their life to stop evil. I support the use of water boarding against known purveyors of evil who are planning or supporting efforts to kill Americans on American soil.
"And if it were made public that we could have stopped the disaster if only we had been willing to use more brutal means, I can assure you that both parties would immediately cleanse themselves of any scruples they might have had about torture. Nor would anyone who opposed the use of torture for state security have a chance to be elected dog catcher ever again. I am not telling you what should happen. I am telling you what will happen. If you want to preserve a republic that can afford scruples about torture, you have to prevent the unthinkable from happening. And that may mean making some hard choices now."
War is hell no doubt. Any torture is horrible, no doubt. The people who were vaporized instantly in the World Trade Towers perhaps were not tortured, but perhaps their families feel tortured by the memory. The people in the World Trade Towers who were baked, broiled or fried may have felt tortured, as may those who died in like fashion in the Pentagon. The people who chose to leap to their death from the World Trade Towers may have felt tortured both before they leapt and on the way down to their very messy death. At least some of those who died in the Pennsylvania field had the satisfaction of knowing that they were sacrificing their life to stop evil. I support the use of water boarding against known purveyors of evil who are planning or supporting efforts to kill Americans on American soil.
“And if it were made public that we could have stopped the disaster if only we had been willing to use more brutal means, I can assure you that both parties would immediately cleanse themselves of any scruples they might have had about torture. Nor would anyone who opposed the use of torture for state security have a chance to be elected dog catcher ever again. I am not telling you what should happen. I am telling you what will happen. If you want to preserve a republic that can afford scruples about torture, you have to prevent the unthinkable from happening. And that may mean making some hard choices now.”
I am hopeful that you are equally concerned and mortified and passionate in your abhorrence of practices such as beheadings. Are there debates ongoing where that technique is practiced? I shall spare all here the links to beheadings. They are horrible to watch. And, unlike for those who experience water boarding, there is no tomorrow.
The price was freedom and economic growth, and to subdue communism. No wonder Russia wasn’t interested!
Reagan took them down without firing a shotJ.
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/11/kiriakou-white-house/
check out the above link
There are several different varieties of interrogation techniques referred to as waterboarding.
n the medieval form of waterboarding, a victim was strapped to a board and tipped back or lowered into a body of water until he or she believed that drowning was imminent. The subject was then removed from the water and revived. If necessary the process was repeated.
There are other forms, but all of them have in common that the victim almost drowns but is rescued or re-animated just before death occurs. The technique is designed to be both psychological and physical. The psychological effect is that the victim is led to believe that he or she is being executed. This reinforces the interrogator's control and makes the victim experience mortal fear. The physical effects are extreme pain and damage to the lungs, brain damage caused by oxygen deprivation and sometimes broken bones because of the restraints on the struggling victim.
A similar technique was applied to punish scolds and detect supposed witches. In a trial by ordeal called "dunking" or "ducking," supposed witches were immersed into a vat of water or pond, and taken out after some time, when the victim was given the opportunity to confess. If she confessed, she was killed; if she did not confess, she was submerged again. This process was usually repeated until the victim either drowned or submitted herself to execution in another way (hanging or, rarely, burning).
24dec2005]
At the price of oil today, I don’t see how we are abusing the suppliers of oil. It’s free market supply and demand. Demand continues to increase, supply is controlled by those who have it (including us), and the price eventually has to go up.
The results of the creation of the USA are freedom and the opportunity for prosperity for US citizens. There will always be some who are unable to do as well as others, but even most of the “poor” in our country own a car, have a cell phone, cable TV, air conditioning, eat well etc.
Even though I agree with the overall message/conclusion of this video, it is a cheap shot piece, despite the collection of interesting and verifiable facts.
Wayne,I personally could care less whether Obama's middle name is Hussein, or where he went to school, or that he is sometimes uncomfortable wearing a US flag pin or placing his hand over his heart, or who his parents were/are, or that his wife is finally proud of her country, etc., etc., etc.
Wayne,
I personally could care less whether Obama's middle name is Hussein, or where he went to school, or that he is sometimes uncomfortable wearing a US flag pin or placing his hand over his heart, or who his parents were/are, or that his wife is finally proud of her country, etc., etc., etc.
